# Jonathan - How is this over the line? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 22, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418 "2013-09-22T04:27:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/1 "2013-09-22T04:27:59Z")
> [@The War on Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/199): > > > [@The War on Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-war-on-guns/669101/196): > > > > I’d be glad to have an actual debate - and have in prior threads. Just not with **Elvis**. That would be as productive as having a debate with the crazy person muttering to himself on the bus. Like I said, his feigned concern over perceived credibility is a poorly crafted ruse. People who support the RKBA don’t care what people like \*\*Elvis \*\*and other hoplophobes think. At all. His opinions are like…lint. Feel free to take a poll, it could be, “Do people who self identify as supporters of the 2nd amendment and the RKBA care what \*\*Elvis \*\*thinks?” But for the sake of other readers who may see his ideas and think they go unchallenged - that’s the only reason at all to respond. > > Bone, that’s really over the line. That’s attacking the poster and not the argument. Don’t do this again. > > Warning issued. > > However, bonus points for use of the world hoplophobe. I asked via PM, but I’m not sure I understand the response. Can you identify specifically where I attacked the poster [Elvis]? The gist was that (1) there is no point in arguing with some people [not attacking, stating as a general fact] and (2) his [Elvis] opinions were worthless (attacking the opinion, not the poster). That’s not okay? In response, Jonathan you mentioned that it was because I identified Elvis by name. I’m not sure this makes a whole lot of sense since many many debate responses address posters individually by name. The discreet act of addressing by name can not itself be construed as insulting or a personal attack so the content must be the culprit. I’m not seeing where that’s the case. Can you clarify specifically where the poster was attacked? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/2 "2013-09-22T04:52:59Z")
Seriously? You think directly comparing another poster by name to “a crazy person muttering to himself on the bus” isn’t insulting? I would have issued a warning for that too. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/3 "2013-09-22T05:58:40Z")
Sorry Bone, it seems pretty clear and obviously over the line to me… not that my opinion counts for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/4 "2013-09-22T06:52:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Seriously? You think directly comparing another poster by name to “a crazy person muttering to himself on the bus” isn’t insulting? > > I would have issued a warning for that too. Yes, seriously. If I did compare another poster to a crazy person muttering to himself on the bus I would agree with you. I was careful not to do that. I made the comparison, that a debate with Elvis would be as productive as a debate with X. Does it matter what X is? I am not saying Elvis is X, just that the debate would not be productive. An alternative would be saying that said debate would be as productive as a conversation with a dishtowel. Of course I am not saying that Elvis is a dishtowel in the same way I am not calling him a crazy person with that statement. I understand you may disagree - but that was the intended and actual construction of that particular phrase. Did you share **Colibri** ’s interpretation too, **Jonathan**? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/5 "2013-09-22T07:00:48Z")
I do and you know it. I expressed this same thing in response to your earlier private message. Your attempt to insult a fellow poster and rules lawyer yourself out of the consequences has failed. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/6 "2013-09-22T07:02:40Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > If I did compare another poster to a crazy person muttering to himself on the bus I would agree with you. That’s what you did. You’re trying to dice things way too fine. Just don’t make remarks that could be construed as insulting to other posters without seeing exactly how close to the line you can get. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/7 "2013-09-22T07:05:14Z")
I will avoid making such comparisons in the future but I’m still not clear on the violation as at no time did I attack Elvis the poster. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/8 "2013-09-22T09:52:17Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I will avoid making such comparisons in the future but I’m still not clear on the violation as at no time did I attack Elvis the poster. You said “Just not with **Elvis**. That would be as productive as…”. In other words, “Arguing with **Elvis** would be as productive as…” That’s the students who claim they didn’t plagiarize because they changed a word or two in the sentence. You think hiding your intent in some written legerdemain protects you from breaking the rules, but I don’t think it does. You separated the idea with a period but the two halves of the idea (You won’t argue with Elvis and arguing would be like debating with a batshit crazy person) go together. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/9 "2013-09-22T12:47:01Z")
I can’t believe I was up at 3AM posting about this. Yes, Bone, despite your protestations of innocence you were indeed singling out ElvisLives for attack. One more time, don’t ever do it again. And, I’d advise you that - other than my nine-year-old and D&D players, no one likes rules lawyer. Just a hint. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/10 "2013-09-22T14:09:23Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I can’t believe I was up at 3AM posting about this. > > Yes, Bone, despite your protestations of innocence you were indeed singling out ElvisLives for attack. One more time, don’t ever do it again. > > And, I’d advise you that - other than my nine-year-old and D&D players, no one likes rules lawyer. Just a hint. I like rule lawyers. (ETA, but I enjoy stirring the rule pot) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/11 "2013-09-22T16:12:34Z")
What’s hoplophobia? Fear of Spartans? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/12 "2013-09-22T16:20:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What’s hoplophobia? Fear of Spartans? Apparently it’s what you call someone while at the same time complaining that the other person is calling you names. It’s pretty much on par with “gun grabber”. Edited to add: It’s not a real medical term. > [@Urban Dictionary](#): > > n. Irrational, morbid fear of guns (coined by Col. Jeff Cooper, from the Greek “hoplites,” weapon). May cause sweating, faintness, discomfort, rapid pulse, nausea, sleeplessness, more, at mere thought of guns. Hoplophobes are common and should never be involved in setting gun policies. Point out hoplophobic behavior when noticed, it is dangerous, sufferers deserve pity, and should seek treatment. When confronted, hoplophobes typically go into denial, a common characteristic of the affliction. Often helped by training, or by coaching at a range, a process known to psychiatry as “desensitization,” often useful in treating many phobias. Also: Hoplophobe, hoplophobic. It’s a direct insult. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/13 "2013-09-22T17:09:47Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I can’t believe I was up at 3AM posting about this. Oh, did we forget to mention that when we told you about the job duties? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/14 "2013-09-22T17:23:09Z")
Believe it or not, Lynn. I was awakened by the squeals of teen girl laughter from my living room. My oldest is having a sleepover and the sounds of destruction woke me up. I went and yelled at them - in proper irritated parent fashion - and sent them to bed I couldn’t get back to sleep so I checked in and lo and behold! There I was, being questioned in public after Bone had done some in a private message. Well, to each their own. But I do hope this can be instructive. Don’t spend time looking for cracks in the rules to exploit, lest I revert to irritated parent mode with YOU. Or, in short, if manhattan was - in his own words - ‘the fucking hall monitor’, then I would fall into the ‘fucking grumpy middle-aged father of teen girls just beginning to think about dating’. No one really wants me to bring that out, do they? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/15 "2013-09-22T21:09:13Z")
I understand picking apart rules is not a desired outcome. At the same time it appears that posters value precision of language - this is why I ask specifically where Elvis the poster was directly attacked. . How else would board staff countenance such comparisons of RKba supporters as racist chilld murdering paranoid fetishists with inadequate genetilia? This is a regular occurrence. Poster A could say they are a member of X. Poster B will say that members of X are crazy alien goat rapists and as long as they are talking about the membership of X that appears to be okay. Am I missing the distinction? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/16 "2013-09-22T21:19:13Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Am I missing the distinction? What “group” does “a crazy person muttering to himself on the bus” belong? In your post, you compared Elvis, by name, to a crazy person. You didn’t compare gun control advocates in general to crazy people. That’s a clear personal insult. Really, this is not that complicated. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/17 "2013-09-22T21:21:51Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I understand picking apart rules is not a desired outcome. At the same time it appears that posters value precision of language - this is why I ask specifically where Elvis the poster was directly attacked. . How else would board staff countenance such comparisons of RKba supporters as racist chilld murdering paranoid fetishists with inadequate genetilia? > > This is a regular occurrence. Poster A could say they are a member of X. Poster B will say that members of X are crazy alien goat rapists and as long as they are talking about the membership of X that appears to be okay. Am I missing the distinction? Yes. You called out Elvis specifically. You said you wouldn’t debate with people like him (the poster) because people like him are crazy. It’s really not that subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/18 "2013-09-22T21:22:35Z")
You called him a hoplophobe and said his opinions are like lint. As **Czarcasm** pointed out, the first is a direct insult and, unless you enjoy making your own emergency fire-starters or paper, so is the second. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/19 "2013-09-22T21:38:43Z")
Was your intent to actually not insult him in any way? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418/20 "2013-09-22T21:58:24Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > What “group” does “a crazy person muttering to himself on the bus” belong? Well, the Greater USA Combined Branch of CPMTHOTB, for one. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-how-is-this-over-the-line/669418.md?page=2)