# Jonathan Karl at ABC News and Dan Rather at CBS News: What's the fucking difference? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2013, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003 "2013-05-22T11:01:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/21 "2013-05-22T16:34:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. > > Karl’s “best” would have been to accurately report that an unnamed source _claimed_ that e-mails exist which said thus-and-so. By failing to report the arms-length distance by which he learned of the supposed contents, he gave rise to an appearance of confidence in the reporting that did not exist. > > This is more like his “lacksadascial.” 😕 “lacksadascial?” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/22 "2013-05-22T16:45:10Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 😕 > > “lacksadascial?” Yes. Lacksadascial. Much like my attention to my spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/23 "2013-05-22T16:48:11Z")
The word is lackadaisical. This email story is upsetting, but let’s not forget what really counts: spelling and grammar. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/24 "2013-05-23T03:53:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > My point was that he claimed that he was providing first-hand reporting of the memos, but he never actually saw them himself. The scandal is that the Republicans in Congress saw the originals of these emails two months before Jon Karl revealed them. Of course Jon Carl should have known they were shown to many members of Congress who could take notes. Did Carl go to a Dem Congressman to see their notes. Nope, Karl jumped on the Scandal Mongering when he chose a headline something like… Whites House Talking Points were Scrubbed… One of the big ‘buzz words’ of scandal. 12 times… 12 times… My GOD the white House scrubbed the talking points 12 times. Some Republicans know that is a lie… but remain silent.. hey know it was the CIA that drafted statement about the spontaneous demonstration and Victoria Nuland did not force those words in. HERE IS THE PROOF: > [@](#): > > ORIGINAL CIA revised draft of TALKING POINTS (9/14/12 04:42 PM): > > Excerpts … I have posted the full text often… > > We believe based on currently available information that the demonstrations in Benghazi were spontaneously inspired by the protests at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo and evolved into a direct assault against the U.S. Consulate and subsequently its annex. > > The crowd almost certainly was a mix of individuals from across many sectors of Libyan society. That being said, we do know that Islamic extremists with ties to al-Qa’ida participated in the attack. > > [Newly Released Benghazi Emails Reveal Talking Points Timeline [FULL TEXT TRANSCRIPT] | IBTimes](Http://www.ibtimes.com/newly-released-benghazi-emails-reveal-talking-points-timeline-full-text-transcript-1262877) (see page 14 and 15 on the scroll of 100 email documents} ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/25 "2013-05-23T04:05:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In journalism that’s not good enough. … How do you report a story like this if you haven’t even seen the emails, and if they’re being described to you by someone who has reason to paint them in the worst possible light? Total botch job. This was reveled to the public when the White House released the emails: > [@](#): > > ORIGINAL CIA revised draft of TALKING POINTS (9/14/12 04:42 PM): > > Excerpts … We believe based on currently available information that the \*\*demonstrations \*\*in Benghazi were \*\*spontaneously inspired by the protests at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo \*\*and evolved into a direct assault against the U.S. Consulate and subsequently its annex. I wish I had time to study the transcripts of all the right wing pundits and politicians like Rush who was specific enough to declare that the original CIA talking points did not contain the word “MOVIE”.. That is because he knows that the CIA wrote what they have blamed on Obama’s people for 8 months. To a ditto head… .that is proof that the White House scrubbed it. Of course the CIA gave the Obama Administration the stuff about the spontaneous demonstration and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/26 "2013-05-23T04:09:35Z")
What is a “dittohead” and can NFBW please decide on whether he’s attacking “Karl” or “Carl”? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/27 "2013-05-23T04:13:43Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What is a “dittohead” and can NFBW please decide on whether he’s attacking “Karl” or “Carl”? Do you have an opinion or something to add to the discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/28 "2013-05-23T04:19:37Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Do you have an opinion or something to add to the discussion? Of course I do. Anyway, are you attacking “Carl” or “Karl” and what is a “dittohead”? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/29 "2013-05-23T06:17:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Of course I do. Anyway, are you attacking “Carl” or “Karl” and what is a “dittohead”? A dittohead is the name for someone who watches Rush Limbaugh’s show. It’s their own term, BTW. It comes from Limbaugh’s fans’ use of the word “ditto” to avoid wasting airtime on banal pleasantries, like “How are you,” “I love your show,” “I want to ask you a question,” etc. This came from one guy who once said “Ditto what the other caller said.” It’s also used as a pejorative against people who watch the show and just “ditto” (i.e. parrot) what Limbaugh says. And it’s gotten broader to cover any right wing host or even some politicians. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/30 "2013-05-24T08:47:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Of course I do. Do we get to see what it is? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/31 "2013-05-24T13:08:35Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I have to say that I’m a little surprised to see posters here who are so typically well-versed in current events, particularly politics, asserting they have absolutely no idea who Jonathan Karl is. The guy has been with ABC News for a decade, and was with CNN for 8 years before that. > > Sure, he’s not of the stature of Dan Rather, but to have never heard of the guy before suggests that you’ve never seen or read any US based news content about US domestic politics for over a decade. Well, I never watch ABC news and rarely watch CNN. The only real local channel in the South Bay is NBC, so they get my business even if I’m watching the national news. I get my news mostly from the newspaper, PBS and the internet. I don’t need to know who JK is to be well informed, and maybe people have seen him but his name didn’t stick. Rather was old school, before the 24 hour news cycle and the internet, plus he was on _60 Minutes_. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/32 "2013-05-24T13:33:08Z")
I’d never heard of Jonathan Karl either. If you asked me to guess I would have said he was a celebrity psychic. The error in the Rather thing wasn’t just Rather’s; lots of people shared the blame, but it was his face on the story and he was in charge. Karl’s error appears to have been his alone. Whether that makes it a smaller or larger scandal is open to debate I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/33 "2013-05-24T16:32:41Z")
Plus CBS put their story out even after several of their experts refused to vouch for the authenticity of the documents. They were pretty obviously hoping to swing the election before their fraud was found out. Burkett only agreed to hand over the forged documents if the network would arrange a conversation with the Kerry campaign. [Cite](http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-09-20-cbs-documents_x.htm). So it was much more clearly an effort to try to unseat a President, thru foul means. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/34 "2013-05-24T16:34:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Plus CBS put their story out even after several of their experts refused to vouch for the authenticity of the documents. They were pretty obviously hoping to swing the election before their fraud was found out. I’m sure this is obvious to you, but what they were actually hoping to do was report a big story. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/35 "2013-05-24T16:49:38Z")
I agree with Marley. CBS was mostly interested in getting a scoop, which would mean beating the other networks and getting more advertising dollars. Swinging the election in favour of the candidate their anchorman preferred was just gravy. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/36 "2013-05-24T16:50:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, I never watch ABC news and rarely watch CNN. The only real local channel in the South Bay is NBC, so they get my business even if I’m watching the national news. > > I get my news mostly from the newspaper, PBS and the internet. I don’t need to know who JK is to be well informed, and maybe people have seen him but his name didn’t stick. Rather was old school, before the 24 hour news cycle and the internet, plus he was on _60 Minutes_. I don’t watch ABC or CNN or local news myself, or even read the local newspaper. I get my news from the internet, but I guess I read so many blogs that link to ABC, or that include regular critiques of mainstream media reports that I’ve seen his name a lot. I probably wouldn’t have been able to pick him out of a lineup, but I’m familiar with his name. Again, I’m not saying he’s of the status of Dan Rather, but I do object to the attempt to diminish the story by pretending that he’s some no-name guy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/37 "2013-05-24T17:12:54Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Swinging the election in favour of the candidate their anchorman preferred was just gravy. Because the anchorman runs the news division and therefore the network, or something. It would’ve been a significant story but the assumption that it would have thrown the election - or that anybody involved believed it could do so - doesn’t hold up in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/38 "2013-05-24T17:52:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m sure this is obvious to you, but what they were actually hoping to do was report a big story. As long as the story hurt Bush, sure. [QUOTE=Andy Rooney, in a speech at Tufts University,] There’s no question they wanted to run it because it was negative towards Bush. [/QUOTE] [Cite](http://www.mrc.org/biasalerts/clift-moyers-denounce-rices-lies-shredding-us-credibility-11222004). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/39 "2013-05-24T17:58:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As long as the story hurt Bush, sure. > [Cite](http://www.mrc.org/biasalerts/clift-moyers-denounce-rices-lies-shredding-us-credibility-11222004). > > Regards, > Shodan Andy Rooney? He once did a story about how he falls asleep on the bus. I’m not sure he’s the go-to authority on the goings on in the news division. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003/40 "2013-05-24T18:00:58Z")
Your cite is Andy Rooney, the guy who got paid to spout off about irrelevant nonsense and had nothing to do with the story? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-karl-at-abc-news-and-dan-rather-at-cbs-news-whats-the-fucking-difference/659003.md?page=3)