Israel wants security. The Palestinains want land. Peace seems to be a viable means of satisfying both sides. Don’t sentimentalize it, OK?
Certainly part of the spy-game is an acknowledgement that, if the guy is caught, he’s on his own. Israel is not playing by those rules. The US is - it apparently did not give a shit when its spy in Israel was caught. At least, not publicly.
Another part of the spy game appears to be that if the spy you catch is from a friendly country, you pop him into jail without making a big fuss and stink to embarass your buddy - the Israelis find the US is not playing by this rule vs. them, whereas they are vs. America.
Sripped of its emotive “perfidy”, what you seem to be saying is that the US ought to be free to spy on Israel and not vice versa because the US holds the whip hand - which may be true, but is hardly edifying.
So answer the question, then. Why should they need a bribe in order to proceed?
“According to Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS) investigator Ronald Olive, Pollard also passed classified information to South Africa and attempted, through a third party, to sell classified information to Pakistan on multiple occasions.” Link.
“Pollard’s supporters in Israel and the US have tried to portray his actions as motivated by loyalty to the Jewish state. However, that position has been undermined because he was paid for the information and the FBI has claimed he also sold secrets to apartheid South Africa and attempted to pass them to Pakistan.” Link.
Furthermore, “A number of officials strongly suspect that the Israelis repackaged much of Pollard’s material and provided it to the Soviet Union in exchange for continued Soviet permission for Jews to emigrate to Israel.” Link to New Yorkers article on a right-wing website. So, the harm likely goes far beyond “spying for an ally.”
. . . and don’t forget, after denying him asylum in the first place, literally expelling him from the embassy. Isn’t that the very definition of “leaving a man behind”?
See post 19.
$10K up front plus $1.5K per month? I do not get out of bed for that. I had no idea he was a discount spy.
“I don’t mind a parasite, I object to a cut-rate one.”
-Rick
Casablanca
- Addressing Alessan, not you
- Why should we even *want *to support an Israeli administration with this one’s policies?
I don’t think the US should be spying on Israel either, but at least we’re not simultaneously accepting billions of dollars of annual aid while we do it.
Having said that, there’s a difference between catching a spy and catching a traitor. We might expect and quietly tolerate some degree of “friendly” spying from allies, but we do not tolerate traitors.
Damn right you were responsible for him, and as long as he remains in our prison you will be reminded why what you asked him to do was wrong. We are responsible for maintaining our security.
He stays.
For what it’s worth, that was 1980’s dollars.
10,000 1985 $ = 19,674.57 in 2009 1,500 1985 = close enough to $3,000 in 2009
More peanuts but still peanuts.
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Your post immediatly followed mine; and
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Because this particular policy is one you support? Remember “only Nixon could go to China” - meaning, it is easier for a right-wing PM to “sell” a peace deal.
Of course we are - we’re a completely different country. Why is this such a shock? Every country the U.S. deals with has its own unique culture that needs to be taken into account.
Yes, but we all have people in our towns who are Jews. They are also Americans. I recall I was … working with the IDF and encountered a guy with a very American name, very American English and very American appearance. But he was completely Israeli. We think we know the Israelis, but we do not. I suppose the reverse is also true.
How odd, it seems (well, in a Wikipedia sort of way) that the Israelis were unwilling to turn over supposed American spy Yousef Amit, but wants us to turn over their spy.
The “whip hand” argument.
In both cases cited, the spying was by traitors.
To my mind Israel is wrong to ask for his release - he’s a domestic traitor and that’s US business - and the US is wrong to be making a big deal about his arrest.
Spying and recruiting traitors is simply part of what countries do - and the US is certainly no exception.
The difference is that the US (IMO rightly) did not ask for him.
I’ve never heard any of this before. From your links, it’s mostly suspicion and conjecture - may be true, may not.
It’s a moot point, anyway. What’s important is the Israeli public’s perception of the affair. So long as he’s perceived as our loyal agent, the Israeli public - the only people Netanyahu is accountable to - will continue to press for his release.
And the fact that we refused to help Pollard at the beginning only exacerbates the need to help him now, because now we also have guilt to deal with.
Have we met?
I saw this story in the paper today and was disgusted. There’s no reason to tie the release of this spy to Israel extending the settlement freeze, which it should be doing anyway in the interest of peace. It reeks of tone-deaf arrogance.
According to a compendium of espionage that I keep handy (:)), Pollard has had his monthly spy salary banked for him in Israel since he got caught and imprisoned. If this is true he should have a tidy nest egg waiting for him whenever he gets out and moves or is deported over there. That also leaves a bad taste.
No one besides Pollard’s family or whatever friends he may have retained should be pushing for his release. His sentence doesn’t seem all that heavy considering what other spies have gotten (John Walker was sentenced a couple of years earlier and also is scheduled to get out around 2015 - and he’s much older and has throat cancer to boot).
Pollard’s a traitor. If he rots in jail the rest of his life it wouldn’t bother me. Netanyahu and his other boosters should STFU.