# Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell on BBC America **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477 "2015-06-14T01:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/21 "2015-06-19T18:57:07Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > Though the casting differed greatly from my reader’s imagination (doesn’t it always?), I loved the choices. The actor I always refer to as “the dweeby boyfriend in \*Vera Drake \*and scary driver ed instructor in _Happy Go Lucky_” is an excellent choice to play Norrell. He looked so wonderfully out of place at the party with his ill-fitting wig. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/22 "2015-06-24T16:53:18Z")
Saw the second episode. Really enjoying the show! The actor who plays Stephen Black is quite good. Loved his reaction to the spiderwebbed attic bell ringing and ringing. The scenes in Lost-Hope were not quite as eerie and weird as I would’ve liked, but were still good. Geoffrey the footman is said to be leaving Lord Pole’s spooky household to work for the Duchess of Devonshire, who of course was rather famous herself: [Georgiana Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgiana_Cavendish,_Duchess_of_Devonshire) Great scene with JS first summoning the Gentleman with Thistle-Down Hair, who remained unseen even as he leaned in very close to the young magician - who could nevertheless just barely hear what he was saying, as if it was coming from next door. The Gentleman also appeared at the book auction at the end and I guess could be seen by everyone - even offering his handkerchief to Arabella. Hmmm. What was the point of creating rain-ships off the French coast? The French didn’t really do anything to their disadvantage as a result of seeing them. Great scene with JS dislodging the ship that had run aground. I also enjoyed GN’s mix of joy at finding a protegee, and unease about having him learn more than GN wanted him to. And to let him take 40 books of magic to Spain… horrors! Compared to the books, Lord Pole’s concern for his wife, in his discussions with S&N, seems much more heartfelt and genuine. In the books, I had the sense that he was more concerned about his political and social standing in being married to a madwoman than about relieving her from the ordeal she was clearly suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/23 "2015-06-24T17:35:03Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > What was the point of creating rain-ships off the French coast? The French didn’t really do anything to their disadvantage as a result of seeing them. England was blockading the French ports. All they needed was for the French to feel their ships were sufficiently threatened for them to remain at port. Probably the illusion would’ve worked better if there hadn’t been so many ships that the French officers got suspicious enough to investigate. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/24 "2015-06-24T17:46:10Z")
In the book, the ships kept the French in port for several days, which allowed the English to disrupt shipping elsewhere. You really didn’t get a sense of that in the show. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/25 "2015-06-24T17:48:06Z")
This episode was better, livelier and with less dreary exposition. The flip side is that I kept feeling that several chapters had gone missing between scenes. I read the book when it came out, but I remember zero details so I need the show to make its own sense. The rain ships, I finally figured out, were a blockade that made it almost impossible for the French to move their ships through. It wasn’t clear why; maybe the water was so heavy that it capsized ships. There was a passing mention of trying to blockade a thousand miles of shoreline, which you think would be necessary. The whole French navy can’t be at Brest. I don’t think the Fairy was seen by everyone. I think he manifested himself solely to Arabella because he fancies her. The whole getting the words imprecise in a deal with the devil is probably the worst, most cliched part of an otherwise imaginative book. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/26 "2015-06-24T17:55:06Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The whole getting the words imprecise in a deal with the devil is probably the worst, most cliched part of an otherwise imaginative book. That’s so central to stories about dealing with Faeries, though, that you could almost argue it’s necessarily present to tell that it _is_ a story about dealing with Faeries. Sort of like it’d be a weird djinn story without a “be careful what you wish for” theme in it. And, of course, imprecision about the wording (of spells) is central to several key plot points later, too. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/27 "2015-06-25T09:19:02Z")
I’m re-reading the book now, and it’s interesting to see where they’ve condensed or rearranged various plot points and actions to make for a better (and shorter) dramatic presentation. I’m not too much of a purist when it comes to these things and thus far I don’t think this is to the detriment of the story, although sometimes they have left out context - for example, the point about the ships where they neglected to explain what the purpose of the false blockade was. And I have to say that I’m really enjoying Bertie Carvel’s Strange - he is (written) somewhat wilder than the character in the book but the actor is pulling it off beautifully. That said, I’m also enjoying the book again- I had forgotten how wonderful the language was, with so many whimsical asides and footnotes that obviously can’t be conveyed in a dramatisation. One footnote about Strange rearranging various landmarks in Spain - including moving the entire city of Pamplona 10 miles to avoid extra marching, and swapping the location of two churches on a drunken bet - and then forgetting to put everything back afterwards is a personal favorite. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/28 "2015-06-25T10:45:15Z")
I hate to say it, but now that I’m on episode five I’m kind of losing interest. I’ll power through, because the atmosphere is great and I’m always on the lookout for cool magical stories to steal for roleplaying campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/29 "2015-06-25T11:39:58Z")
I’m assuming there’s only one more episode to go, based on the events at the tree. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/30 "2015-06-25T13:05:02Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m assuming there’s only one more episode to go, based on the events at the tree. On the BBC America schedule, we have five more episodes. Too bad none of the UK watchers bothered to start a thread! Still quite enjoying it. I’ll reread the book after the series ends… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/31 "2015-06-25T13:34:42Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > …I don’t think the Fairy was seen by everyone. I think he manifested himself solely to Arabella because he fancies her… Mr. Norrell clearly saw the Gentleman, too; other than Arabella, we couldn’t really tell if others at the auction did. > [@Gyrate](#): > > …That said, I’m also enjoying the book again- I had forgotten how wonderful the language was, with so many whimsical asides and footnotes that obviously can’t be conveyed in a dramatisation. One footnote about Strange rearranging various landmarks in Spain - including moving the entire city of Pamplona 10 miles to avoid extra marching, and swapping the location of two churches on a drunken bet - and then forgetting to put everything back afterwards is a personal favorite. Please read the OP, and spoiler-box future book references. Thanks! I also liked that part of the book, esp. later when the Duke of Wellington is annoyed that the Spanish government keeps pestering him with letters, asking for their country’s landmarks to be restored to their proper places. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/32 "2015-06-25T14:48:58Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Please read the OP, and spoiler-box future book references. Thanks! Oops! Sorry! At least it was only a footnote. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/33 "2015-06-29T16:42:58Z")
No prob. Saw the latest episode and liked it. Good on Arabella for not agreeing to any deal with the Gentleman. But what will he be able to do with her tear-stained handkerchief…? Those resurrected Neapolitan soldiers were both creepy and pitiable. Wellington was properly snappish/arrogant - the actor reminded me of a young Alan Rickman. Nice to see the soldiers recognize Strange’s magical achievements by doffing their shakos. Chilling scene of Stephen Black being born on a slave ship. Strange’s book-toting assistant and Norrell’s aide Childermass both sacrificed themselves for their masters. But has the latter been killed? No preview for next week’s episode, alas. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/34 "2015-06-30T14:00:00Z")
I’ve decided i really do not like Mr. Norrell. In the book, I felt a little sympathetic towards him as a man whose reach exceeded his grasp, and I could understand his jealously towards Jonathan, who was much more talented than he was. He behavior towards Lady Pole in the show was much more harsh and cruel than I remember in the books. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/35 "2015-06-30T14:08:22Z")
Yes, he is an odious little toad in many ways. Intercepting Mrs. Strange’s mail is particularly awful - it would be the only way the happy couple kept in touch while Mr. Strange was with the British Army in the field. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/36 "2015-06-30T14:15:31Z")
Their vagueness about how much time has passed is driving me crazy. The only indication we have of how long Strange has been gone is that Norrell has a drawerfull of letters. How often is Arabella writing him? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Has he been gone for weeks or years? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/37 "2015-06-30T14:36:19Z")
Jeez - I had forgotten about the drawer full of letters. I’m glad his books had gotten blown up, the two-faced little twit. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/38 "2015-07-05T05:54:50Z")
I finished watching the whole series (without having read the book). It definitely felt a bit rushed towards the end, but on the whole I liked it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/39 "2015-07-06T10:05:03Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > I finished watching the whole series (without having read the book). It definitely felt a bit rushed towards the end, but on the whole I liked it. Well, they condensed and adapted a lot of action from the book into the television version, in part for time and in part because a lot of what was in the book was about what people were feeling vis-a-vis magic going on or expositive backstory rather than visible action. For example, in the book we get a long story about how the Gentleman found Stephen’s true name, which involved him blithely describing him murdering (or leaving to die) dozens if not hundreds of people in terrible ways; this story serves as a motivation for Stephen’s subsequent action. Instead, in the drama we’re shown him doing horrible things to people rather than simply telling us about other people he’s done horrible things to in order to explain what Stephen does.But I agree that it felt rushed. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477/40 "2015-07-06T15:36:34Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > I’ve decided i really do not like Mr. Norrell. In the book, I felt a little sympathetic towards him as a man whose reach exceeded his grasp, and I could understand his jealously towards Jonathan, who was much more talented than he was. > > He behavior towards Lady Pole in the show was much more harsh and cruel than I remember in the books. In the book, Norrell was personally an odious little twit - but in many ways, he was right. Dealing with faries _was_ a very bad idea (which of course didn’t stop him from doing it, which sets the plot in motion … ). Strange, on the other hand, was mostly personally admirable (if a bit lacking in direction at first). Full of courage (where Norell wasn’t), generous towards others (not Norell’s long suit!), a loving husband (can’t see Norell caring much for anyone other than himself). Yet it was Strange who also becomes a menace - exactly because of all of these admirable qualities. He literally drives himself insane in order to move his studies to the next level - he’s simply not cautious enough to see that an ultra-powerful magician, trained in battle, who is also totally nuts may be a trifle dangerous to the community! Though in fact, other than scaring the crap out of numerous people, particularly Drawlight [who totally deserved it], he doesn’t actually harm anyone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-on-bbc-america/722477.md?page=3)