# JonBenét Ramsay murder case discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 23, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633 "2011-06-23T23:58:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/21 "2011-06-24T02:36:05Z")
> [@YaraMateo](#): > > Looking back at a lot of things in the way she lived, I think Jonbenet was sexually abused and her parents were aware. I think they sold their daughter. I also think that weirdo that confessed to it a few years back knows more than he’s letting on. Maybe he wrote the note, but I think there’s a killer we don’t know of. He did not write the note… and I would be very surprised if JonBenet was physically abused by either parent - there is no evidence of that. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/22 "2011-06-24T02:37:21Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Now just who would take JonBenet and then stay in the house find a note pad and then spend an hour writing a ransom note, and after that then hide the body in the basement? Every family has their own, unique Christmas traditions… ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/23 "2011-06-24T02:40:45Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > He did not write the note… and I would be very surprised if JonBenet was physically abused by either parent - there is no evidence of that. His handwriting is eerily similar and he used phrased in his yearbook that appeared in the note. I think he did write it. Also, there were physical signs she was being sexually abused. I never said the parents did so. I said they were aware. She showed regression in potty trainning. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/24 "2011-06-24T02:42:49Z")
Originally Posted by Susanann Now just who would take JonBenet and then stay in the house find a note pad and then spend an hour writing a ransom note, and after that then hide the body in the basement? > [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Every family has their own, unique Christmas traditions… No forced entry, no tracks in the snow…and yes, this happening at Christmas time is significant, at least to me. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/25 "2011-06-24T02:48:13Z")
> [@YaraMateo](#): > > She showed regression in potty trainning. I hope you’re basing it on more than that. Kids regress in their potty training for a whole lot of reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/26 "2011-06-24T02:50:25Z")
> [@YaraMateo](#): > > 1. His handwriting is eerily similar and he used phrased in his yearbook that appeared in the note. I think he did write it. > > 2. Also, there were physical signs she was being sexually abused. I never said the parents did so. I said they were aware. > > 3. She showed regression in potty trainning. 1. There is no way John could have written that note, even if John tried to do it left handed. 2. OK, I will not argue this point, BUT it is neither here, nor there to directly attach to actual murder that night 3. Potty training is not a reasonable, nor believable, motive at all for Mr John to kill his daughter. It is hard for me to even seriously consider what you are saying. Go look elsewhere for a real stronger motive. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/27 "2011-06-24T02:51:30Z")
> [@5-HT](#): > > I hope you’re basing it on more than that. Kids regress in their potty training for a whole lot of reasons. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/28 "2011-06-24T02:51:38Z")
> [@5-HT](#): > > I hope you’re basing it on more than that. Kids regress in their potty training for a whole lot of reasons. Why did you quote just that? Right before I said, she had physical signs of sexual abuse. Her autopsy showed such signs. Her regression was bad she would literally ask people (strangers too) to wipe her privates. Her own grandmother admited this. I know children her age. They don’t ask nonparents to do such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/29 "2011-06-24T02:52:45Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > 1. There is no way John could have written that note, even if John tried to do it left handed. > > 2. OK, I will not argue this point, BUT it is neither here, nor there to directly attach to actual murder that night > > 3. Potty training is not a reasonable, nor believable, motive at all for Mr John to kill his daughter. It is hard for me to even seriously consider what you are saying. Go look elsewhere for a real stronger motive. Are listening to me? I didn’t say her parents killed her. I said her parents were AWARE SHE WAS SEXUALLY ABUSED. Can you also quote me right? I said more than just potty regression. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/30 "2011-06-24T02:58:00Z")
Some handwriting experts said Patty could have written the note. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/31 "2011-06-24T03:00:14Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Nope! > > There really was no real evidence of any intruder, no evidence of a break-in. Now just who would take JonBenet and then stay in the house find a note pad and then spend an hour writing a ransom note, and after that then hide the body in the basement? I don’t know, **Susanann**. You say that you do know. Please just tell us a name. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/32 "2011-06-24T03:05:06Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > 1. I remember one of the investigators saying there was no way in hell a parent or family member would do that to their child. > > 2. JonBenet was murdered by strangulation via garroting by use of a paint brush handle. Her skull also showed signs of blunt trauma impact. > > 3. The investigator reasoned that had one of the family members actually committed the killing, there would have to have been clear, documented signs of past mental illness. There were none. 1. NOt true. Some parents have committed horrible atrocities to or on their children, and committed terrible murders of their children. However, it is very rare, even rarer for both parents to be complicit, and in this case, the parents Mr and Mrs Ramsey did NOT murder their child. 2. Not true. In fact, in my limited (but professional) experience, most people with mental illness, are NOT documented as such. However, as far as I am concerned, my **UN** professional personal opinion of the entire Ramsey family is that I personally think that they were all nuts!..but at the time of the murder I dont remember any of them, at the time, being diagnosed with any significant mental disorder requiring incarceration. 3. Remember that once you identify the correct murderer, then\*\* ALL!!! \*\*the pieces, all the clues, all the facts, will neatly fit into the puzzle, since there are no inconsistencies, there are no contradictions. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/33 "2011-06-24T03:12:14Z")
Cite for evidence of sexual abuse? The DNA found on her was found mixed with blood inside her panties. As the Boulder DA said, there canm be “no innocent explanation” for where that was found. Whoever left that DNA was the killer, and it wasn’t any of the Ramseys.It was an intruder. For some reason, that’s not satisfying to a lot of people. Elabaorate theories that they were pimping their daughter are ridiculous on their face, but even so, all those possibilities were investigated exhaustively. The simple truth is that some scumbag busted into the house and killed their daighter, then, as if that wasn’r horrific enough, they were denied compassion due to them as victims by a media lynching and a nation of Nancy Graces who don’t require evidence to know who’s guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/34 "2011-06-24T03:12:48Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Some handwriting experts said Patty could have written the note. I would not argue this point, I would not underestimate what Patty could do, esp if she wrote left handed, Patti was ambidextrous. Regardless, even if Patty wrote the note that does not mean that she murdered the child, and in the final analysis, regardless of whether or not Patty wrote the note , Patty did NOT murder her child. It does not “fit” at all to suspect Patty of the murder of JonBenet. It really makes no sense at all, too many questions, no motive, too many inconsistencies with Patty, etc etc etc. Patty did NOT murder JonBenet - you can take that to the bank. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/35 "2011-06-24T03:15:51Z")
> [@YaraMateo](#): > > His handwriting is eerily similar and he used phrased in his yearbook that appeared in the note. I think he did write it. > > Also, there were physical signs she was being sexually abused. I never said the parents did so. I said they were aware. She showed regression in potty trainning. Ramsay was a near billionare. There is no conceivable reason for them to “sell” their daughter. The kid was a show pony for the mother. I think it was a crime of anger where someone (he or she) lost their temper. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/36 "2011-06-24T03:16:45Z")
**Susanann** , I don’t get why you’re choosing to be so coy in all this. O.K. just to play along, you seem to suggest that it was the brother who was the killer. Fair enough. Can you give us a rundown of your case against him? I’ll maintain an open mind during the proceedings. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/37 "2011-06-24T03:18:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > 1. The DNA found on her was found mixed with blood inside her panties… Whoever left that DNA was the killer, … > > 2. As the Boulder DA said, there canm be “no innocent explanation” for where that was found… 1. True, but that still does not rule out a \*\*\*secondary carrier transfer \*\*\*of DNA, therefore, the DNA that was found does not rule out anyone. The murderer could have stuffed OJ Simpson’s ski cap in her throat but that does not mean that OJ did it. Whoever had access to the longjohns could have done it, which means anyone could have done it. 2. Obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/38 "2011-06-24T03:25:04Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Ramsay was a near billionare. There is no conceivable reason for them to “sell” their daughter. The kid was a show pony for the mother. You are absolutely right, it does not “fit”. There was no motive, no reason, no explanation, it makes no sense, for John and/or Patty to have murdered their daughter JonBonet. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/39 "2011-06-24T03:33:50Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > You are absolutely right, it does not “fit”. There was no motive, no reason, no explanation, it makes no sense, for John and/or Patty to have murdered their daughter JonBonet. \*JonBenét ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/40 "2011-06-24T03:34:04Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Ramsay was a near billionare. There is no conceivable reason for them to “sell” their daughter. The kid was a show pony for the mother. I think it was a crime of anger where someone (he or she) lost their temper. They could have been swaping (if they were pedophile) or they could have been using for her politic pull. Maybe they were mentally sick. I just think it’s really wrong to say because she was rich she wasn’t sexually abused and if she was her parents had no idea. I think them being rich would make them know more. They would know who their daughter was around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633.md?page=3)