# JonBenét Ramsay murder case discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 23, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633 "2011-06-23T23:58:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/101 "2011-06-25T03:58:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She’s excluded as the killer by DNA. The Ramseys were formally exonerated by the Boulder DA. There isn’t a shred of evidence against them. The continued accusations are baseless. The Boulder DA said some dipshit things in her press conference, some of which you’ve already parroted. Her “exoneration” is not held in high regard and neither is her reputation. But I suppose you already know that and this is just another one of those old shoes you aren’t going to stop chewing on. Since you won’t listen to logic and reason, there’s no point even bothering to address your ridiculous statements again. But geez, you are insufferable. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/102 "2011-06-25T04:03:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She’s excluded as the killer by DNA. The Ramseys were formally exonerated by the Boulder DA. There isn’t a shred of evidence against them. The continued accusations are baseless. No, no, no, and no. She’s not excluded as the killer by DNA. The DNA could just as easily come from the factory where the panties were made. She was never formally exonerated of anything. Mary Lacy just said that she agreed with a judge in a civil case (who had no access to the police evidence) that the evidence pointed to an intruder. She actually qualified her statement that the Ramseys were still suspects. The current Boulder DA, who is in charge of the case, has said that the Ramseys are still under investigation. There are tons of evidence against them, circumstantial and otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/103 "2011-06-25T04:10:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She’s excluded as the killer by DNA. False statement. See post 85 in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/104 "2011-06-25T05:07:30Z")
Not a false statement. The killer’s DNA does not belong to the Ramseys. It wasn’t from the factory where the panties were made, because it was found on two separate articles of clothing. I will also repeat that there is not a single piece of evidence pointing at the Ramseys. Not one. “Handwriting analysis” is pseudoscience. ---
**Author:** ![koeeoaddi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/koeeoaddi/32/408_2.png) [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/105 "2011-06-25T05:20:22Z")
It’s been a long time since I read anything about this case, but didn’t they find fibers from the sweater Patsy was wearing at the Christmas Eve party (and, IIRC, still wearing the next morning) on the inside, sticky part of the tape that covered JonBenét’s mouth? Was that ever explained? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/106 "2011-06-25T05:45:28Z")
Red fibers were found on the tape, but they weren’t definitively matched to anything. John Ramsey had also pulled the tape off of JonBenet’s mouth and discarded it on the carpet, which contaminated it with all kinds of things. The stranger DNA was also found under JonBenet’s fingernails, by the way, and that DNA did not match any of the Ramseys or anyone they knew. It was an intruder. There is zero evidence pointing to the Ramseys. Zippety fucking doo da. They’re entitled to the respect due to victims unless and until somebody can actually produce exhibit one against them (which no one ever has). ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/107 "2011-06-25T05:56:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The stranger DNA was also found under JonBenet’s fingernails, by the way, No it wasn’t. That DNA didn’t match any other found on the body. The two articles of clothing that the matching DNA were found on were underwear and long underwear, which were in contact with each other. That means absolutely nothing. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/108 "2011-06-25T06:00:03Z")
I’ve also heard it argued that ONLY a parent/family member could kill someone so brutally. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/109 "2011-06-25T06:24:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The killer’s DNA does not belong to the Ramseys. False statement. See post 85 in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/110 "2011-06-25T06:29:57Z")
Santa Claus did it. He knew the Ramsey house well, and had the opportunity to leave a door or window unlocked so that he could enter the house. He could even have convinced the girl to let him in the house by pre-arrangement, or just by showing up. He wrote a fictional account of some bizarre activity involving a kidnapped girl… He committed suicide (maybe) soon after her death. He was ruled out by the incompetent investigators early on, and there was little followup in investigating him. Unidentified DNA is worthless in an investigation. You can find DNA anywhere. It can be transferred in all sorts of ways, and can simply be contamination after the fact. Santa Claus did it. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/111 "2011-06-25T12:55:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Santa Claus did it. He knew the Ramsey house well, and had the opportunity to leave a door or window unlocked so that he could enter the house. He could even have convinced the girl to let him in the house by pre-arrangement, or just by showing up. He wrote a fictional account of some bizarre activity involving a kidnapped girl.. He committed suicide (maybe) soon after her death. He was ruled out by the incompetent investigators early on, and there was little followup in investigating him. > > Unidentified DNA is worthless in an investigation. You can find DNA anywhere. It can be transferred in all sorts of ways, and can simply be contamination after the fact. > > Santa Claus did it. Santa’s wife actually wrote the play, and she was inspired by the well-known Sylvia Lykens case. Also, wasn’t it his heart condition that killed him? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/112 "2011-06-25T14:02:41Z")
What if it wasn’t Santa Claus as in the neighbor but Santa Claus as in…um, Santa? ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/113 "2011-06-25T14:59:55Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > Santa’s wife actually wrote the play, and she was inspired by the well-known Sylvia Lykens case. Also, wasn’t it his heart condition that killed him? Did he have heart problems that would made it impossible to kill her? I heard he had very weak heart. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/114 "2011-06-25T16:07:57Z")
It was the incompetent Boulder investigators who cleared Santa early on. The reason for his demise has never been clearly determined. He was found with a stun gun next to him, for no explained reason. I consider it a probable suicide. He had no trouble playing Santa Claus at the Ramsey’s house, and there was no evidence to show he was too weak to have committed the murder, just the opinion of an incompetent investigator. I believe Santa was found with a cap that had some strange letters on it that matched something in the ransom note. There is one piece of evidence missing, that points to an outsider commiting the murder. There was no roll of tape found anywhere in the house to match the tape on the girl. Unless one of the Ramseys was keeping a length of duct tape around off the roll to use here, someone else came in. There is the possibility that the roll was disposed of before the police arrived, or shortly afterward when they were wandering around with their heads up their asses, but no such evidence of that happening has been presented. Again, I stand by my initial conclusion, Santa Claus did it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/115 "2011-06-25T17:40:27Z")
It actually could have been someone weaing a Santa suit. That would explain why she’d willing go down to the basement with an intruder. All evidence points to an intruder, though and none to the Ramseys. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/116 "2011-06-25T19:07:21Z")
The thing that puts the weirdest twist on things is the ransom note. It had to be written by someone who knew the family and felt comfortable being in the house for an extended period. ---
**Author:** ![YaraMateo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/58f4c7/32.png) [@YaraMateo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaraMateo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/117 "2011-06-25T19:32:23Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > The thing that puts the weirdest twist on things is the ransom note. It had to be written by someone who knew the family and felt comfortable being in the house for an extended period. Everyone I really thought could have done either didn’t know the amount or handwriting didn’t match up. It seems everyone who’s handwriting matches I don’t think commited the crime. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/118 "2011-06-25T19:32:37Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > The thing that puts the weirdest twist on things is the ransom note. It had to be written by someone who knew the family and felt comfortable being in the house for an extended period. Someone like Santa Claus maybe? ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/119 "2011-06-26T00:14:31Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It was the incompetent Boulder investigators who cleared Santa early on. The reason for his demise has never been clearly determined. He was found with a stun gun next to him, for no explained reason. I consider it a probable suicide. He had no trouble playing Santa Claus at the Ramsey’s house, and there was no evidence to show he was too weak to have committed the murder, just the opinion of an incompetent investigator. I believe Santa was found with a cap that had some strange letters on it that matched something in the ransom note. > > There is one piece of evidence missing, that points to an outsider commiting the murder. There was no roll of tape found anywhere in the house to match the tape on the girl. Unless one of the Ramseys was keeping a length of duct tape around off the roll to use here, someone else came in. There is the possibility that the roll was disposed of before the police arrived, or shortly afterward when they were wandering around with their heads up their asses, but no such evidence of that happening has been presented. > > Again, I stand by my initial conclusion, Santa Claus did it. I think you might be mixing up your dead suspects. Bill McReynolds is the guy with a bad heart who played Santa, whose wife wrote the play based on Sylvia Lykens’ murder. Michael Helgoth is the man whose body was found near a stun gun and the baseball cap with the lettering stbc. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633/120 "2011-06-26T00:21:20Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Where does making a career of trotting your 6 year old child around like a prize show pooch fall on that continuum? I agree that pageanting is a pretty weird hobby. It makes a bit more sense when you learn that both Patsy & her sister were Miss West Virginia at one point in their lives. Pageant stuff had worked for her; she caught a fat cat with it. She wanted more of the same for her daughter. Most folks raise their kids to be at least a little interested in the things they’re interested in. But yeah, overall, pageants & pageant parents are pretty skeevy in my book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsay-murder-case-discussion/586633.md?page=7)