# Jonbenet Ramsey Special - CBS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369 "2016-09-19T18:47:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/21 "2016-09-20T09:01:42Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > I’ve lived in Boulder since 1991 and was here through the whole thing. I actually had a friend who was in meetings with top law enforcement and the show was almost 100% accurate to what the cops and the DA’s office believed at the time. My friend was cryptic about the details at first, but after Alex Hunter refused to indict, he just flat out told me. > > (Re: the “touch” DNA. It didn’t matter either way. It was neither exculpatory nor probative. She could have picked it up from sitting on someone’s lap at the Christmas party they were at just before the murder. It could have come from a toy she got for Christmas. It’s only useful if it confirms other evidence, like if they found DNA on the flashlight or ransom note or on the iron grate over the windows.) > > The intruder theory was always ridiculously impossible anyway. > > The boy did it, the parents covered it up, and there was nothing to be gained because the kid couldn’t be prosecuted for murder anyway (too young). > > The girl was dead, the parents didn’t do it, and there was nothing they could do to the kid. So they let it go as a family tragedy. Boulder’s like that. > > All it did was make the cops look incompetent, but they weren’t. > > The cops were right, the DA’s office was (arguably) right, the parents were right (declaring innocence) and the show was right. Prosecuting the parents for the cover-up would have implicated a 9 year old immune kid and ruined the family and created an OJ-like shitstorm of a trial. > > Was it right from a legal standpoint? No. Was justice served? Eh, probably. Thanks for this explanation. I have always suspected the Ramsey’s are guilty. Guilty of what though I am not sure, but guilty of something. Murder, Manslaughter? The DNA stuff can be confusing. I am extremely wary of the DNA in this particular case. The levels of DNA are minute. The foreign unknown DNA would be more persuasive had it been found from semen, blood or skin under Jonbenet’s nails. But none of this was present. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/22 "2016-09-20T10:43:31Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Most of Lou Smit’s “evidence” came from revelations during prayer, many times with the Ramseys. > > [Solving the JonBenet Ramsey Case: The Lou Smit Show](http://solvingjonbenet.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-lou-smit-show.html) …that cite has one mention of “prayer.” "Anonymous July 31, 2012 at 3:09 PM I like the envelope theory better. Smit was a well respected detective. Smit could not really have believed the intruder theory. I think during the prayer meeting in the van someone slipped someone an envelope." You have literally cited a person named “Anonymous” from the comments section of a blog post by a guy going by the name “Doctor Gosh.” The blog post’s entire argument is based on one of incredulity. I’m sure you can do better than that. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/23 "2016-09-20T14:01:59Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > The boy did it, the parents covered it up, and there was nothing to be gained because the kid couldn’t be prosecuted for murder anyway (too young). I’m not interested enough in the circus to watch the show or read news accounts of it, but I’m curious: What is the speculation as to motive? Or do they think it was some kind of accident? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/24 "2016-09-20T14:29:53Z")
Next up: a two-part prime-time special on the beating death of a 6yo black kid in South Philly, still unsolved after twenty years. Watch world experts give their sober opinions on the evidence, suspects and probable solution of this heinous case within the next year. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/25 "2016-09-20T14:30:09Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Don’t believe anything that came out during Mary Lacy’s tenure as DA. She’s a complete psycho. Her office leaked false information left and right, not just on Jon Benet. Remember the Colorado football “scandal?” Where half the team were rapists? Know how many football players were indicted? Not convicted. Not arrested. Just formally accused. Zero. All on Mary Lacy’s tenure. That is just conspiracy minded talking points. The reality is that the march of time and the evidence exonerated the football team. But that was indeed an issue with the policing. Unless you can show that the lab did tamper with the information the results show indeed what you demanded early. > [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > That’s a horrible story. You should try to find corroboration (that isn’t just referring to the 48 hours story) I already did in in another thread in GD. > **[DNA clears JonBenet's family, points to mystery killer - CNN.com](https://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/09/jonbenet.dna/)** > > Recently developed "touch DNA" technology has cleared all members of JonBenet Ramsey's family of her slaying, authorities said Wednesday. > [@](#): > > Early on in the case, Boulder police said parents John and Patsy Ramsey, and their son, Burke, were under “an umbrella of suspicion” in JonBenet’s death, although they were never named as suspects. > > John Ramsey found his daughter’s body in the basement of the family’s Boulder, Colorado, home on December 26, 1996. She had been strangled and beaten. Testing in 1998 showed that DNA evidence found in the girl’s underwear and beneath her fingernails was from an unidentified man and did not match anyone in the Ramsey family. > > Tests conducted in March revealed that new DNA collected from a pair of long johns matched a sample previously taken from the child’s panties. > > Genetic material was scraped from the waistband of the long johns, which JonBenet was wearing over her underwear when her body was found. Lacy said in her statement that authorities believe the long johns were either replaced or removed by her killer. > > Additional tests were conducted to ensure that the genetic material did not come from law enforcement or medical examiner’s personnel, the statement said. > > “The unexplained third-party DNA on the clothing of the victim is very significant and powerful evidence,” Lacy’s statement said. “It is therefore the position of the Boulder District Attorney’s Office that this profile belongs to the perpetrator of the homicide.” > > That same DNA also exonerated John Mark Karr, a one-time schoolteacher, after he was arrested in Thailand and confessed to the killing in 2006. Lacy was widely criticized for the handling of Karr’s arrest. The point here is that while one can point at dunderheads in the attorney’s office the labs have not been found to have done anything wrong. > **[DNA clears Ramsey family in JonBenet's death - USATODAY.com](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-07-09-jonbenet_n.htm)** > > New DNA evidence has cleared the family of JonBenet Ramsey of any role in the 6-year-old's 1996 murder. > [@](#): > > The new DNA evidence was recovered in March, using a relatively new technique known as “touch DNA,” in which genetic material was obtained from cell scrapings on long johns the child was wearing at the time of her death, Lacy said. That material matched an unknown male profile previously identified from two sites on the inside area of the child’s underwear. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/26 "2016-09-20T14:30:21Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > I’m not interested enough in the circus to watch the show or read news accounts of it, but I’m curious: What is the speculation as to motive? Or do they think it was some kind of accident? Burke was known for bouts of rage against his sister. He hit her with a golf club earlier. He would spread feces on her wall, the walls of the bathroom. There was even a box a candy that she received the day before on Christmas, that had feces smeared on it. It is speculated that he may have hit her over the head with the flashlight in a fit of jealousy, and killed her. Not necessarily premeditated murder, but an angry brother. The parents then covered it up because there was nothing they could do to get JonBenet back, they worked hard to not lose their son as well. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/27 "2016-09-20T15:09:19Z")
> [@Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](#): > > Did anybody see the 2-part Dr Phil interview with Burke? It was on last Monday, 9/13/16 and the second half was shown today. Man oh man, that guy, now 29, is _creepy_. The fact that he’s good looking, polite and well spoken adds, oddly, to his creep factor. He reminds me of Tony Perkins in _Psycho_. Being a creepy, socially maladjusted recluse is not proof of murder. I can’t imagine that being suspected of your sister’s murder from the age of, what, ten? would make for a normal childhood, either. He’s been cleared based on DNA evidence. While that’s not infallible, folks should perhaps keep an opinion mind about his guilt or innocence. I don’t think we’re ever going to know who killed the little girl. Can the media just give is a rest? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/28 "2016-09-20T15:15:47Z")
At the end of the day, there is one thing to keep in mind. The Burke theories are just that — theories. If the authorities had dismissed the DNA evidence then what was reported in later years would make no sense; bottom line: the authorities are not considering the Ramseys as suspects anymore, and most of what is being reported later that omits the DNA evidence goes into the same pile as the Kennedy assassination conspiracies that omit Oswald. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/29 "2016-09-20T15:50:48Z")
Burke is the only way to explain the existing evidence. But that evidence was collected in a poor investigation, all of it is suspect in some way or another. Someone in the house is the most likely explanation. Difficult to explain John or Patsy Ramsey sticking together if only one of them killed her unless it was to protect Burke. Difficult to explain why they would cooperate in killing her if it wasn’t Burke. Unfortunately almost impossible to rule out an intruder. Even a more competent investigation may not have revealed conclusive evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/30 "2016-09-20T16:08:56Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …that cite has one mention of “prayer.” > > "Anonymous July 31, 2012 at 3:09 PM > > I like the envelope theory better. Smit was a well respected detective. Smit could not really have believed the intruder theory. I think during the prayer meeting in the van someone slipped someone an envelope." > > You have literally cited a person named “Anonymous” from the comments section of a blog post by a guy going by the name “Doctor Gosh.” The blog post’s entire argument is based on one of incredulity. > > I’m sure you can do better than that. > **[Springs detective Lou Smit, 75, prayed with, helped Ramseys](https://www.denverpost.com/2010/08/11/springs-detective-lou-smit-75-prayed-with-helped-ramseys/)** > > Springs detective Lou Smit, 75, prayed with, helped Ramseys > [@](#): > > Smit’s faith in God has always been a top priority for the detective, who for years sat in the third row at the Cragmor Christian Reform Church listening to his wife play the organ before she died several years ago. > > In the 1960s, after his bottled-gas and tree-cutting businesses both failed, Smit got on his knees and prayerfully “gave it all he got,” his daughter Cindy Marra said. > > A few weeks later, a cousin who worked at the Colorado Springs Police Department called and asked him to apply. He saw that as an answer from God. > > “His faith was the most important thing to him. It was a quiet thing. He wouldn’t beat anybody over the head with it,” Marra said. > > **Prayers were part of his investigative routine**. > > “The very first thing I would ever do is stop about a quarter- block away and say a prayer,” he said. “God answered my prayers.” ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/31 "2016-09-20T16:14:30Z")
I think it is all very consistent with an unknown intruder combined with the parents _thinking_ it was Burke and clumsily trying to protect him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/32 "2016-09-20T16:40:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Burke is the only way to explain the existing evidence. But that evidence was collected in a poor investigation, all of it is suspect in some way or another. Someone in the house is the most likely explanation. Difficult to explain John or Patsy Ramsey sticking together if only one of them killed her unless it was to protect Burke. Difficult to explain why they would cooperate in killing her if it wasn’t Burke. Unfortunately almost impossible to rule out an intruder. Even a more competent investigation may not have revealed conclusive evidence. I guess it has to be clarified, ignoring the DNA evidence only leads one to disregard ideas like that. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/33 "2016-09-20T16:45:30Z")
I read a summary of the TV special’s claims. [https://www.google.com/amp/www.people.com/people/article/amp/0,,21031199,00.html?client=ms-android-motorola](https://www.google.com/amp/www.people.com/people/article/amp/0,,21031199,00.html?client=ms-android-motorola) They claim Burke whacked his sister on the head over a pilfered pineapple snack. The parent’s cover up begins. How does the show’s experts account for the sexual abuse? I would hope the sinister cover up didn’t include necrophilia. That’s too horrific to even contemplate. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/34 "2016-09-20T16:53:58Z")
I have to say that a lot can be explained by family members that did believe that a family member was responsible and made several harebrained attempts at making evidence to exonerate the family when someone else was responsible. It would not be the first time where innocents tampering with evidence does happen. I do remember that in the McMartin child abuse case (where all the family was also found innocent with even more evidence) one suspect did attempt to destroy his porn collection because he did believe that it was going to get him in trouble. That act was what got him more into trouble indeed (with many armchair detectives of the day also getting the wrong conclusion) and he was lucky that more evidence was made to show that he was innocent of the crime. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/35 "2016-09-20T17:37:37Z")
My wife and I watched about 20 minutes of it last night, and found it particularly creepy that they kept referring to a 6 year old’s underwear as “panties”. ---
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/36 "2016-09-20T18:05:12Z")
Did they say what happened to the brother? Did he grow up to become a solid citizen or is he in and out of rehab/jail/etc? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/37 "2016-09-20T18:18:04Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > My wife and I watched about 20 minutes of it last night, and found it particularly creepy that they kept referring to a 6 year old’s underwear as “panties”. Having raised a little girl, that’s a pretty typical term for little kid undies. At least back in the day it was. I always said undies, but other kids and parents said panties. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/38 "2016-09-20T18:23:56Z")
Burke went to Purdue and is a Software Engineer. Apparently does most of his work remotely. Rather than in a office. Seemed socially awkward in the Dr Phill interview. But, obviously this case pretty much made a normal childhood impossible. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/39 "2016-09-20T18:34:58Z")
Socially awkward is putting it mildly. He grinned like a Cheshire cat through the whole interview with Dr. Phil, even while discussing his sister’s murder. He didn’t display any empathy for his sister or concern that they haven’t caught the killer. That’s not evidence he killed her, but it sure doesn’t help him in the court of public opinion. He also admitted to having snuck downstairs with a flashlight that evening to play with his Christmas toys. His fingerprints are on the pineapple bowl which JonBenet ate from. I find it really hard to believe an intruder was waiting somewhere inside the house until Burke went to bed again. The CBS special matches my theory of the case. ---
**Author:** ![PeskiPiksi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PeskiPiksi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeskiPiksi)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369/40 "2016-09-20T18:36:30Z")
Another problem with the “Burke did it” theory besides the DNA is the fact that nobody knows for sure exactly what it was that actually killed her. There were half-moon marks and scrapes on her neck, which I’ve seen at least a couple of experts claim were defensive wounds–JonBenet trying to remove the rope from around her neck. Which means she was alive when someone was trying to choke her. If that’s a correct interpretation of the marks, it means the “accidental/out of burst of anger blow to the head followed by a staged cover-up” theory doesn’t work. I noticed the show last night conveniently left this little nugget of information out. But the scatology stuff is mega-creepy, and suspicious I admit. I honestly don’t know what I believe about this case. Seems like for every piece of evidence, there’s another that directly contradicts it. Nothing and everything seems likely. And yeah, nothing weird about calling little girls underwear “panties.” That’s what they’re called. Speaking as a former little girl and current mother to one. ETA: Did anybody else find the sequence where they had the ten year-old boy actually bash a skull really disturbing? Was it REALLY necessary to use a blonde wig? So tasteless. I was not impressed by this show. Seemed to me they had decided ahead of time who they were going to accuse and then skewed the results to match that conclusion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jonbenet-ramsey-special-cbs/766369.md?page=3)