# Josh Duggar (Duggar kid 1/19) to be executive director of Family Research Council **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 19, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369 "2013-06-19T16:22:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/181 "2015-05-24T00:04:23Z")
The parents say everybody involved got counseling, but the counseling the girls received most likely was the Gothard blame-and-shame cited above. It has been confirmed that it is where Josh went for his counseling. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/182 "2015-05-24T00:06:48Z")
“Upstanding”? You do know what the [Family Research Council](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/family-research-council) is, right?? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/183 "2015-05-24T00:07:48Z")
Typically a pastor does a lot of counseling for families in crises. I’d guess these days modern pastors have a list of health care professionals they can refer people to. My pastor has helped me through several difficult times in my life. A good pastor makes hospital visits, home visits, and makes himself available whenever a family is in crises. I’ve heard the Duggars are in a more strict, maybe Pentecostal? Religion. You may be correct that their pastor doesn’t use or refer people for professional counseling. That would be a mistake. Those girls certainly needed professional counseling to cope. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/184 "2015-05-24T00:09:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Typically a pastor does a lot of counseling for families in crises. I’d guess these days modern pastors have a list of health care professionals they can refer people to. My pastor has helped me through several difficult times in my life. A good pastor makes hospital visits, home visits, and makes himself available whenever a family is in crises. > > I’ve heard the Duggars are in a more strict, maybe Pentecostal? Religion. You may be correct that their pastor doesn’t use or refer people for professional counseling. That would be a mistake. Those girls certainly needed professional counseling to cope. The approach to counseling girls on sexual abuse is cited above. It is absolutely sickening. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/185 "2015-05-24T00:16:13Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Thank you for your response, **Bricker**. I still maintain that “inaccurate” is an inappropriate term in this conversation, and here’s my thinking: > > A statement of fact has a truth value, whether that truth value has generally been established as apparent to the disinterested observer, or whether it has not. ISTM that there are three distinct categories that can be used to describe the truth value of any assertion: _accurate,_ _inaccurate,_ and _of undetermined accuracy._ One could arguably usefully substitute _proven,_ _disproven,_ and _unproven_ as descriptors for these categories. In the context of an online debate (as opposed to, say, a jury trial), I do not agree that it is legitimate to conflate the second and third categories, any more than it is to conflate the first and third. OK, that’s a fair approach. I was using the term _in response_ to a claim of certainty. That is, what justified my claim of “inaccurate” was as a gratuitous rebuttal to the claim that we know what the Duggars think. But your assessment divorces my comment from a reply to **Honey** and treats it as a first-instance claim. I absolutely agree that it cannot stand in that context. > [@](#): > > Similarly, our not being in a courtroom (once again, ISTM) suggests that the bar for “baselessness” could be raised a bit higher than “suitable evidence upon which to base a claim,” particularly in the absence of anyone vested with the authority to decide what is and what is not “suitable.” I might not be comfortable with innuendo, but extrapolation from what we know of Gothardite teaching materials, and the degree to which the family has already demonstrated strict adherence to Gothardite principles should move the assessment of some statements from “baseless” to AT LEAST “circumstantial.” In what specific way does that differ from “innuendo?” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/186 "2015-05-24T00:16:26Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > The approach to counseling girls on sexual abuse is cited above. It is absolutely sickening. If that’s what the girls received then it was terrible. Exposing this story now (12 years later) makes it worse. That 5 year old kid is probably a senior in high school. The comments from her classmates won’t be kind. Kids can be extremely cruel. I guess it’s not hard to figure out which Duggar girl is 16 or 17 today. That’s probably the victim. Or at least that’s the person her schoolmates will assume is the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/187 "2015-05-24T00:17:14Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > The approach to counseling girls on sexual abuse is cited above. It is absolutely sickening. There has been no showing at all that the approach to counseling girls cited above is what the girls got. Has there? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/188 "2015-05-24T00:19:10Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > The parents say everybody involved got counseling, but the counseling the girls received most likely was the Gothard blame-and-shame cited above. It has been confirmed that it is where Josh went for his counseling. And you know this was “likely,” because you are a mind reader, or were a fly on the wall when the events happened and have only recently reincarnated into human form, or were working for the NSA at the time and used the NSA’s monitoring suite of tools to hear it all. Or because “possible” plus “a target I don’t like” combines to create “likely.” Mmmmmmm? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/189 "2015-05-24T00:22:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And you know this was “likely,” because you are a mind reader, or were a fly on the wall when the events happened and have only recently reincarnated into human form, or were working for the NSA at the time and used the NSA’s monitoring suite of tools to hear it all. > > Or because “possible” plus “a target I don’t like” combines to create “likely.” > > Mmmmmmm? Does “likely” now mean “certainly”? Because fly on wall and NSA employment would “certainly” establish what happened, instead of what appears to be “likely” from everything else the Duggars have CHOSEN to broadcast about their lives and beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/190 "2015-05-24T00:25:22Z")
> **[The Duggar Homeschool Program's Terrifying Advice on Sexual Assault](https://www.gawker.com/the-duggar-homeschool-programs-terrifying-advice-on-sex-1706406324)** > > Why were evangelical reality star and conservative political activist Josh Duggar’s parents Jim Bob and Michelle so slow to act on the revelation that their eldest son had molested his younger sisters—and, ultimately, so lenient? Documents about... > **[Founder of Josh Duggar’s ‘treatment center’ left after ‘sexually grooming’...](https://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/founder-of-josh-duggars-treatment-center-left-after-sexually-grooming-teens-and-young-women/)** > > The founder of a chain of Christian "treatment" centers Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar sent their eldest son to for molesting five girls -- including his sisters -- resigned in 2014 under a cloud of accusations that he had "sexually groomed" and... There’s a bunch more links that all indicate both the Gothard treatment plan for sexual abuse and the strong ties between the Duggars and the Gothard program. Your view that we should assume they didn’t really believe the practices they preached or the programs they participated in has jumped the shark, adopted little Danny, stolen the kangaroo, and fired Smithers. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/191 "2015-05-24T00:27:12Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > If that’s what the girls received then it was terrible. > > Exposing this story now (12 years later) makes it worse. That 5 year old kid is probably a senior in high school. The comments from her classmates won’t be kind. Kids can be extremely cruel. I guess it’s not hard to figure out which Duggar girl is 16 or 17 today. That’s probably the victim. Or at least that’s the person her schoolmates will assume is the victim. The only classmates a Duggar child has are their own siblings. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/192 "2015-05-24T00:27:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That’s probably the victim. Or at least that’s the person her schoolmates will assume is the victim. **One of** the victim **s**. There were 5 victims. Four of them were his sisters. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/193 "2015-05-24T00:27:38Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Does “likely” now mean “certainly”? Because fly on wall and NSA employment would “certainly” establish what happened, instead of what appears to be “likely” from everything else the Duggars have CHOSEN to broadcast about their lives and beliefs. No, no – both flies and NSA eavesdroppers have limits. The auditory processing power of the _musca domestica_ is questionable at best. And the NSA is limited to phone conversations. This is simply a case of “That’s just what people like that WOULD do, isn’t it?” ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/194 "2015-05-24T00:32:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, no – both flies and NSA eavesdroppers have limits. The auditory processing power of the _musca domestica_ is questionable at best. And the NSA is limited to phone conversations. > > This is simply a case of “That’s just what people like that WOULD do, isn’t it?” No. This is a case of " based on everything we know about this family, including their reliance of Gothard material and involvement with the organization that spawned the really, really shitty counseling guidelines [that include asking the victim if maybe it isn’t better that as a result of abuse, they get a better relationship with God-- so isn’t it really a good thing that you were abused???]…isn’t it LIKELY that they ALSO used that shitty material to counsel the victims?" Or is it more _likely_ that they fall in with everything else the Institute says, BUT NOT THAT?" I am sure you are a thing of beauty in a courtroom, Bricker, but this sort of nitpicking of human reaction is a little unseemly. ETA: and if by “people like that” you mean “people who follow the Gothard teachings” and by “WOULD do” you mean “use those teachings to deal with a horrific situation in their home,” then yes, that’s what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/195 "2015-05-24T00:37:56Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I am sure you are a thing of beauty in a courtroom, Bricker, but this sort of nitpicking of human reaction is a little unseemly. Newer models of the Litigatron 2000 emulate extra-courtroom thinking more deftly, I hear. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/196 "2015-05-24T00:53:35Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I don’t know for certain that Josh hasn’t touched a kid since he was caught and talked to the State police. But, so far there’s no indication that he has done anything but live an upstanding life as an adult. Then you and I have very different definitions of “upstanding.” He worked for a conservative lobbying group which actively works against gay people, viewing them as sexual deviants and child predators. All while hiding behind the fact that he was a sexual predator to his own siblings. That’s not my idea of an upstanding life. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/197 "2015-05-24T00:59:05Z")
**kaylasdad99** , you’re right and I suppose I was too quick to condemn Duggar. HOWEVER, I still feel that he seems more concerned about his own image (his comment about ruining his own life, for example.) > [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, but that doesn’t seem to address sexual assault, which is not about sex but about power. Right? Look **Bricker** , you’re a devout Catholic, as you’ve stated here. Thus, I think it’s safe to assume that you accept the church’s teachings on the Immaculate Conception of Mary (the doctrine that Mary was born without Original Sin), correct? In fact, I’d go so far as to say one shouldn’t need to ask for a site that most devout Catholic accept this, since it’s a major part of the Catholic faith. Well, one of the major teachings of the Gothard sect is that women are supposed to dress modestly, lest they lead men astray. That the way women dress can indeed incite a man to lust after her, and thus if it happens, she is partly responsible for it. The Duggars follow Gothard’s teachings. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume they believe this. They’re wrong, and it’s a disgusting concept, but that’s what they believe. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/198 "2015-05-24T01:19:08Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > If that’s what the girls received then it was terrible. > > Exposing this story now (12 years later) makes it worse. That 5 year old kid is probably a senior in high school. The comments from her classmates won’t be kind. Kids can be extremely cruel. I guess it’s not hard to figure out which Duggar girl is 16 or 17 today. That’s probably the victim. Or at least that’s the person her schoolmates will assume is the victim. God. Do you know nothing about what your spouting about? They don’t go to school. They’re all only stuck with each other, all the time. Even the most basic facts of the situation might help you understand how cultish, insular and damaging these groups are. And, you know, reading the links about the behaviors they engage in and the belief systems they purport to have and inflict on their children. Also, for this sort of fundamentalism, there’s no such thing as a “modern” pastor. If these girls were traded for goats and frankincense, I wouldn’t be surprised. On another note, either Gawker or Defamer (I’ve seen it at both) has now put out a call for people to start sharing their Duggar stories. One, if true, already paints another picture of just exactly how homophobic Michelle is by her getting a former crew member fired for being gay. I do believe the bloom will be off the rose soon, no matter how much TLC may try to drag their feet and still milk the dying cow. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/199 "2015-05-24T01:30:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > But, so far there’s no indication that he has done anything but live an upstanding life as an adult. [Really?](http://pagesix.com/2015/05/22/molestation-bombshell-highlights-duggar-family-hypocrisy/) > [@](#): > > Until Friday, Josh represented the Family Research Council, which claimed in a 1999 publication that “one of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the ‘prophets’ of a new sexual order,” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Apparently, you and I have a different idea of what living an “upstanding life” means. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/200 "2015-05-24T01:32:32Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > Then you and I have very different definitions of “upstanding.” He worked for a conservative lobbying group which actively works against gay people, viewing them as sexual deviants and child predators. All while hiding behind the fact that he was a sexual predator to his own siblings. That’s not my idea of an upstanding life. Exercising personal religious beliefs does not make someone a bad person. These days it takes quite a bit of courage to openly endorse fundamental religious beliefs that have been held true for over two thousand years. I don’t agree with much of what the Duggars follow. My wife and I sought out and attend a moderate church. Our congregation and deacons wouldn’t hire an ultra conservative pastor. But, I do respect people in religions that I don’t follow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369.md?page=11)