# Josh Duggar (Duggar kid 1/19) to be executive director of Family Research Council **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 19, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369 "2013-06-19T16:22:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/201 "2015-05-24T01:37:20Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Exercising personal religious beliefs does not make someone a bad person. These days it takes quite a bit of courage to openly endorse fundamental religious beliefs that have been held true for over two thousand years. > > I don’t agree with much of what the Duggars follow. My wife and I sought out and attend a moderate church. Our congregation and deacons wouldn’t hire an ultra conservative pastor. But, I do respect people in religions that I don’t follow. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/202 "2015-05-24T01:41:24Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > 😕 I was responding to all the hate directed at Josh because of his work with the Family Research Council. I don’t agree with them, but they have every right to lobby for what they believe in. The same rights that protect them, also protect all the rest of us. I do understand hating Josh for what he did to those little girls. Especially since it didn’t get heard in a juvenile court and he didn’t get court recommended treatment. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/203 "2015-05-24T01:42:31Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Exercising personal religious beliefs does not make someone a bad person. These days it takes quite a bit of courage to openly endorse fundamental religious beliefs that have been held true for over two thousand years. Bull and shit. Come back with that happy horsecrap when you’re the one in the gunsights of those “personal religious beliefs” (how benign you make it sound…). People like the Duggars are horrible, awful people who try to make their “personal religious beliefs” into law and force the rest of us to live under them. Fuck. That. Especially when you add in the utter hypocrisy of how they lend their name and fame to attempts to prevent LGBT rights under the lie that LGBT are sexual predators, when the list of ACTUAL sexual predators (one of which happens to be their own goddamn SON) that they’re connected to in one way or another is LOOOONG. Fucking hypocrites. The parents and the oldest spawn can go fuck off and die slow, painful deaths as far as I’m concerned. All of this hoity-toity “But there’s no PROOF that they’re horrible, awful people” blah blah blah is bullshit. All of it. Both from you and Litigitron 2000. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/204 "2015-05-24T01:46:45Z")
Nobody to my knowledge has taken a stance against their right to believe what they believe or said that ‘exercising religious beliefs’ is what makes them ‘bad people.’ And religious fundamentalism isn’t 2000 years old. It’s actually a rather recent, and American, invention. [http://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/24092](http://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/24092) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/205 "2015-05-24T01:49:55Z")
LGBT rights are very firmly entrenched in America. the Family Research Council has absolutely no chance of ever reversing LGBT. Let them huff and puff all they want. Waste tons of money. They’ll never get anywhere. There’s no way anyone can reset the clock back to 1950. Won’t happen. Guaranteed. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/206 "2015-05-24T01:51:27Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Exercising personal religious beliefs does not make someone a bad person. These days it takes quite a bit of courage to openly endorse fundamental religious beliefs that have been held true for over two thousand years. > > I don’t agree with much of what the Duggars follow. My wife and I sought out and attend a moderate church. Our congregation and deacons wouldn’t hire an ultra conservative pastor. But, I do respect people in religions that I don’t follow. When those beliefs include destroying other peoples’ lives, it does make you a bad person. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/207 "2015-05-24T01:51:43Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > No. This is a case of " based on everything we know about this family, including their reliance of Gothard material and involvement with the organization that spawned the really, really shitty counseling guidelines [that include asking the victim if maybe it isn’t better that as a result of abuse, they get a better relationship with God-- so isn’t it really a good thing that you were abused???]…isn’t it LIKELY that they ALSO used that shitty material to counsel the victims?" > > Or is it more _likely_ that they fall in with everything else the Institute says, BUT NOT THAT?" Show me that they fall in line with everything else the Institute says, then, and I’ll grant you that this one point would be an unlikely outlier. For example, is there any evidence that the Duggars believe they are affected by the “sins of [their] forefathers?” (Gothard: “Looking back to our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents, we can often trace our physical features, strengths, and weaknesses through the family line. In the same way, we can observe character traits and spiritual influences that span the generations.”) I admit I’m no expert on the Duggars, but it what ways do you believe they embrace this teaching? > [@](#): > > I am sure you are a thing of beauty in a courtroom, Bricker, but this sort of nitpicking of human reaction is a little unseemly. Why do you believe you can excuse making unproven claims by labeling it “human reaction?” If you can, then why do you deny me my human reaction: asking for evidence for your weak and unproven claims? ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/208 "2015-05-24T01:55:55Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > If that’s what the girls received then it was terrible. > > Exposing this story now (12 years later) makes it worse. That 5 year old kid is probably a senior in high school. The comments from her classmates won’t be kind. Kids can be extremely cruel. I guess it’s not hard to figure out which Duggar girl is 16 or 17 today. That’s probably the victim. Or at least that’s the person her schoolmates will assume is the victim. None of them go to school. They are home schooled by their older siblings. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/209 "2015-05-24T01:57:51Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > LGBT rights are very firmly entrenched in America. the Family Research Council has absolutely no chance of ever reversing LGBT. Let them huff and puff all they want. Waste tons of money. They’ll never get anywhere. There’s no way anyone can reset the clock back to 1950. Won’t happen. Guaranteed. Says a man who wouldn’t be affected one iota if a reversal DID happen. May I remind you that it’s only been 12 years since Lawrence v Texas, the SCOTUS case that made actual criminalization of homosexuality unconstitutional? There are still more states without non-discrimination protections than with. I can get married here in Pennsylvania but putting a wedding photo of my husband and me on my desk could still get me fired in the private sector. Housing discrimination is still legal in many places and most of the non-discrimination measures that currently exist only exist by statute or (even worse) local ordinance. And that’s only LGB. Don’t even get me started on T. That’s a whole other universe of disgusting personal and religious opinions that pass for legislative reasoning. LGBT equality is NOT firmly entrenched except in the imaginations of people who have no real reason to try to keep up with the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/210 "2015-05-24T01:58:49Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Look **Bricker** , you’re a devout Catholic, as you’ve stated here. Thus, I think it’s safe to assume that you accept the church’s teachings on the Immaculate Conception of Mary (the doctrine that Mary was born without Original Sin), correct? In fact, I’d go so far as to say one shouldn’t need to ask for a site that most devout Catholic accept this, since it’s a major part of the Catholic faith. Correct, on both counts. I accept that teaching as true, and I agree that it’s a fair assumption to make of anyone who identifies as a devout Catholic. > [@](#): > > Well, one of the major teachings of the Gothard sect is that women are supposed to dress modestly, lest they lead men astray. That the way women dress can indeed incite a man to lust after her, and thus if it happens, she is partly responsible for it. The Duggars follow Gothard’s teachings. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume they believe this. They’re wrong, and it’s a disgusting concept, but that’s what they believe. I agree with everything you wrote above. But the problem I’m attacking goes beyond what you wrote. **Honey** confidently asserted that the Duggars believe that in the case of sexual assault, the victim is at fault for stirring up desires in the male. That goes beyond the incitement of lust in a man. Sexual assault is not about lust, but about power. There is nothing I’m aware of in any Duggar comment or action that suggests that in the case of sexual assault, the victim is to blame. So I’m not disagreeing with you that they believe the woman is to blame for arousing lust. I disagree with **Honey** that they believe the woman is to blame in the case of sexual assault. Do you see the distinction now? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/211 "2015-05-24T02:01:07Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > All of this hoity-toity “But there’s no PROOF that they’re horrible, awful people” blah blah blah is bullshit. All of it. Both from you and Litigitron 2000. This is not an argument that is remarkable for its cogency. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/212 "2015-05-24T02:09:38Z")
I can only conclude that Bricker has pursued none of the provided links on the history of the Duggars and their involvement with ATI and is not interested in talking about the topic, only arguing his insane digressive point for purposes of derailing the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/213 "2015-05-24T02:11:04Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > I can only conclude that Bricker has pursued none of the provided links on the history of the Duggars and their involvement with ATI and is not interested in talking about the topic, only arguing his insane digressive point for purposes of derailing the thread. I have read every link provided here. My point is not contradicted by any link in this thread. Is it? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/214 "2015-05-24T02:13:37Z")
Yes. yes it is actually. You’re like somebody trying to argue that being in the KKK didn’t necessarily make someone a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/215 "2015-05-24T02:16:30Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Yes. yes it is actually. You’re like somebody trying to argue that being in the KKK didn’t necessarily make someone a racist. Great. Then please provide the SPECIFIC link, and the SPECIFIC text therein that SPECIFICALLY contradicts my point. A good clue as to the total lack of any argument is your tactic here, in which you indignantly insist that you’re correct and are too offended/busy/above-the-fray to provide any specifics about how I am wrong. It’s just up there, somewhere, eh? ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/216 "2015-05-24T02:17:38Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Let me ask this: do you all think this kind of thing is maybe more common in huge families where the parents just can’t cope and leave the younger ones to be ‘raised’ by the older ones? Throw in religion and homeschooling and I think it’s not unheard of. I ask because there was a huge family living next door where the kids were not allowed to play with normal neighborhood kids. The two oldest, boy and girl, rode together on the school bus sitting next to each other every. single. day. Then there was a younger kid in the family who got some dread disease, taking up the time and attention of the parents, shopping around various doctors, hospitalizations, etc… And then… they just up moved to some culty compound out west, I’d heard. After the 14 year old girl was rumoured to be pregnant…So have any studies been done? It makes sense to me. Bumping it up, am I just conjuring up a worst-case-scenario? Am I wrong in thinking this kind of stuff? These people were real, and they creeped me out. I felt so sorry for the kids. They practically ran away when you said anything to them. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/217 "2015-05-24T02:20:09Z")
Your point was terribly weak and digressive and has been thoroughly debunked. Now go back to whatever subway terminal you pretend to practice law. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/218 "2015-05-24T02:22:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Show me that they fall in line with everything else the Institute says, then, and I’ll grant you that this one point would be an unlikely outlier. For example, is there any evidence that the Duggars believe they are affected by the “sins of [their] forefathers?” (Gothard: “Looking back to our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents, we can often trace our physical features, strengths, and weaknesses through the family line. In the same way, we can observe character traits and spiritual influences that span the generations.”) I admit I’m no expert on the Duggars, but it what ways do you believe they embrace this teaching? I have not seen any evidence of them rejecting \*\*any \*\*tenet of the Gothard version of religion – it seems to me that you are making a claim that they do? What’s your \*\*evidence \*\*that they do? As I have pointed out, every point that they publicly embrace adds (slightly) to the weight that they do \*\*fully \*\*support the church they adhere to. That seems like an assertion that they, in defiance of reasonable assumption, as they very publicly align themselves with Gothard and his teachings, that they don’t align themselves with specific aspects of the church they follow, a rather extraordinary claim. Why, given that they rather publicly endorse his teachings, we should assume that they eschew certain distasteful aspects? Show me an aspect that they have publicly denied the teaching of the religion they joyfully give speeches in \*\*support \*\*of? YOU have stated you don’t agree with the SSM stance of your religion. Have the Duggars publicly broken with the Institute? Unless they have, it seems unreasonable to assume that they have. (Honestly, I would be happy to hear of their religious breaking in this (or any) regard. I just haven’t seen any.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/219 "2015-05-24T02:24:35Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Your point was terribly weak and digressive and has been thoroughly debunked. Now go back to whatever subway terminal you pretend to practice law. Yes, yes … Debunked in that post you can’t be bothered to quote, eh? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369/220 "2015-05-24T02:31:31Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I have not seen any evidence of them rejecting \*\*any \*\*tenet of the Gothard version of religion – it seems to me that you are making a claim that they do? What’s your \*\*evidence \*\*that they do? As I have pointed out, every point that they publicly embrace adds (slightly) to the weight that they do \*\*fully \*\*support the church they adhere to. That seems like an assertion that they, in defiance of reasonable assumption, as they very publicly align themselves with Gothard and his teachings, that they don’t align themselves with specific aspects of the church they follow, a rather extraordinary claim. > > Why, given that they rather publicly endorse his teachings, we should assume that they eschew certain distasteful aspects? Show me an aspect that they have publicly denied the teaching of the religion they joyfully give speeches in \*\*support \*\*of? > > YOU have stated you don’t agree with the SSM stance of your religion. Have the Duggars publicly broken with the Institute? Unless they have, it seems unreasonable to assume that they have. > > (Honestly, I would be happy to hear of their religious breaking in this (or any) regard. I just haven’t seen any.) ETA - I am also far from an expert on the family. Again, I welcome correction on this point. But the fact that their children tout the Gothard summer camps – ALERT and Journey to the Heart, makes me suspect that they FULLY embrace the teachings of the church. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/josh-duggar-duggar-kid-1-19-to-be-executive-director-of-family-research-council/661369.md?page=12)