# Joss Whedon endorses Romney **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 29, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172 "2012-10-29T00:14:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/21 "2012-10-31T01:45:35Z")
Was that Serenity I just heard whoooshing by Sam Stone? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/22 "2012-10-31T03:10:14Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And he might also listen to Malcolm Reynolds, who was no fan of the “Alliance”. Which, by the way, was not a right-wing fascist state. It was a ‘progressive’ state trying to bring its version of enlightenment to the world, by force if need be. The Alliance always struck me as a plutocracy. [Persephone](http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/Persephone) has sparkly high society parties a stone’s throw away from crowded slums, the Blue Sun Corporation would make an antitrust lawyer’s head explode, access to education seems to be mostly a matter of being able to afford to pay for it, and health and safety regulations (e.g. for miners) appear to be nonexistent. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/23 "2012-10-31T03:56:02Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Why the dig against Ayn Rand though? She didn’t have anything against helping people. Let’s just say that a Randroid is not the sort of person you would want to have in the same hideout with you during a Zombie Apocalypse. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/24 "2012-10-31T05:27:14Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Whedon should take a lesson in morality from River Tam, who responded to a do-gooding interventionist teacher’s question about how anyone could possibly dislike having ‘enlightenment’ brought to them by a large government: > > And he might also listen to Malcolm Reynolds, who was no fan of the “Alliance”. Which, by the way, was not a right-wing fascist state. It was a ‘progressive’ state trying to bring its version of enlightenment to the world, by force if need be. Good thing that, one, there has never been a proposal for the government to bring enlightenment to anyone, seeing as that would violate the first amendment’s protection of freedom of religion, and that, two, we are our government, and thus there is no one telling us what to do, despite your libertarian delusions that say otherwise. BTW, you are aware that River Tam was not supposed to be sane a lot of the time, right? (I’m not saying she was here, but you should hardly take advice from her.) ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/25 "2012-10-31T11:54:21Z")
Who is Joss Whedon ? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/26 "2012-10-31T12:04:33Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > Who is Joss Whedon ? What a great question to ask, in 1980, of a friend, when there’s no Internet where you can find the answer more easily than you can respond to a thread. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/27 "2012-10-31T12:18:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Good thing that, one, there has never been a proposal for the government to bring enlightenment to anyone, seeing as that would violate the first amendment’s protection of freedom of religion,… “Enlightement” isn’t only about religion… those countries which consider themselves democratic are all hell-bent on converting everybody else to brands of democracy they consider acceptable, for example, although that changes fuckall depending on who is in charge (what changes somewhat is the tactics used, but not the goal). That said, for a moment I wondered whether Whedon had brain cancer. I’m not his biggest fan, but it’s nice to know he appears to be in good health. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/28 "2012-10-31T15:24:11Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > “Enlightement” isn’t only about religion… those countries which consider themselves democratic are all hell-bent on converting everybody else to brands of democracy they consider acceptable, for example, although that changes fuckall depending on who is in charge (what changes somewhat is the tactics used, but not the goal). Which has nothing to do with the Democratic Party or liberals. **Sam** has a portrayal of evil overbearing liberals trying to oppress honest working folk that has fuckall to do with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/29 "2012-10-31T15:51:44Z")
Pretty much the entire plot of _Serenity_ is the Alliance trying to silence a whistleblower that knows what they did on Miranda. Doesn’t that remind you of someone? Someone who has used the 1917 Espionage Act to prosecute twice as many whistleblowers as every other President put together, and whose administration saw merely speaking favourably of Wikileaks as grounds to repeatedly look for an excuse to have an analyst charged with a capital crime? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/30 "2012-10-31T15:59:18Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Why the dig against Ayn Rand though? She didn’t have anything against helping people. From [RationalWiki,](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Objectivism#Ethics) article on Objectivism: > [@](#): > > **Ethics** > > “There is one word that is forbidden in this valley: the word ‘give.’” > —_Atlas Shrugged_ > > Objectivism holds, basically, that everyone should live by their own effort, neither accepting gifts from others nor giving them, as both actions are considered moral weaknesses. It attempts to apply the principles of laissez-faire to right and wrong. > > Therefore, Objectivism holds that all forms of altruism are irrational and immoral, even if they are done voluntarily. For example, they consider Mother Teresa immoral (just like Christopher Hitchens did, although for different reasons). It should be noted that Objectivism’s system of morals shares many similarities with an older moral philosophy, ethical egoism. > > The closest known relative to Objectivism is the Sith Code, which also sees giving to and loving other human beings as irrational. Mercy and humility are also frowned upon, and she would go to lengths to alter the definitions of these words to prove it. There is a major contradiction in Objectivist ethics: each person, according to Rand, is correct in believing that he or she is the only thing of value in the world. Logically, there cannot be more than one _sole_ source of value – but Rand’s followers barely ever use logic, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/31 "2012-10-31T17:41:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Talk about ignorant…are you really so ignorant of political discourse in this country that you don’t know why a dig at Ayn Rand is appropriate in this clip, and that you think your second sentence pertains? I am not wholly conversant with political discourse in the USA. I _am_ aware that Ayn Rand provokes a knee jerk revulsion from a number of people, which confuses me. She was an average philosopher and writer who held personal happiness (attained, in her words, without ‘leeching’ off others) as her highest good. To help someone because it brought you happiness would be fine in her book. In fact, there’re a number of such examples in her book. That doesn’t seem like something that should attract revulsion. > [@Lightnin](#): > > You know how dogs will often cock their heads at an angle when they see something they don’t understand at all? I did exactly that when I read your message. > > From the Ayn Rand FAQ: “ **My views on charity are very simple. I do not consider it a major virtue and, above all, I do not consider it a moral duty**. There is nothing wrong in helping other people, if and when they are worthy of the help and you can afford to help them. I regard charity as a marginal issue. What I am fighting is the idea that charity is a moral duty and a primary virtue.” > > So, basically, she didn’t have anything against helping other people… _she just didn’t think anyone should_. Eh? I don’t know how you get that interpretation from what you quoted. She didn’t think anyone should be duty-bound to be charitable. She considered sacrifice for something you don’t value as evil. Why’s that wrong? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > From [RationalWiki,](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Objectivism#Ethics) article on Objectivism: That is a caricature, and a bad one. In her [own words](http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/charity.html) on the topic > [@](#): > > To illustrate this on the altruists’ favorite example: the issue of saving a drowning person. If the person to be saved is a stranger, it is morally proper to save him only when the danger to one’s own life is minimal; when the danger is great, it would be immoral to attempt it: only a lack of self-esteem could permit one to value one’s life no higher than that of any random stranger. (And, conversely, if one is drowning, one cannot expect a stranger to risk his life for one’s sake, remembering that one’s life cannot be as valuable to him as his own.) > > If the person to be saved is not a stranger, then the risk one should be willing to take is greater in proportion to the greatness of that person’s value to oneself. If it is the man or woman one loves, then one can be willing to give one’s own life to save him or her—for the selfish reason that life without the loved person could be unbearable. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/32 "2012-10-31T17:50:43Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > Who is Joss Whedon ? Creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Firefly, Dollhouse and the guy who wrote and directed Marvel’s Avengers and also a movie called Serenity. He’s kind of funny and quirky and popular on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/33 "2012-10-31T18:41:26Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I am not wholly conversant with political discourse in the USA. I _am_ aware that Ayn Rand provokes a knee jerk revulsion from a number of people, which confuses me. What may confuse you is that among many people, Rand provokes well-considered and reasoned revulsion. Many of us consider the valuation of ones own desires over those of other people to be irrational and ultimately counterproductive. There’s a current of political belief in the US that idolizes Rand’s valuation of selfishness but combines it with a sanctimonious Christianity, despite the utter opposition of Gospel teachings to Rand’s teachings. A dig at Rand may be based either upon a reasoned contempt for her self-serving shallow philosophy, or upon her religious followers who bowdlerize the philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/34 "2012-10-31T19:27:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Many of us consider the valuation of ones own desires over those of other people to be irrational and ultimately counterproductive. I desire for you to jump off a cliff. (Not really, you’re a fine person I’m sure). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/35 "2012-10-31T19:37:57Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > Who is Joss Whedon ? Not John Galt. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/36 "2012-10-31T19:39:11Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Many of us consider the valuation of ones own desires over those of other people to be irrational and ultimately counterproductive. And yet we keep **doing** it – not because of any philosophy, just human nature. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/37 "2012-10-31T19:46:56Z")
> [@J\_Cubed](#): > > You’d think that a guy with a fake name would correctly pronounce another person’s fake name. I took it the way the Bushes would deliberately mangle the pronunciation of foreign leaders’ names if they didn’t like them. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/38 "2012-10-31T19:47:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And yet we keep **doing** it – not because of any philosophy, just human nature. Aye, and to expect otherwise and design systems (Socialism - the real one - from each according to ability and to each according to need) that expect us to do otherwise, is, I think, irrational and ultimately counter productive. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/39 "2012-10-31T19:48:55Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I desire for you to jump off a cliff. (Not really, you’re a fine person I’m sure). Great. Your desire for me to do that gets weighed against my desire to continue living, to watch my daughter grow up, to avoid pain, and so on. It also gets weighed against my desire to live in a world in which frivolous desires don’t kill people. Your desire loses, based on a wholly rational calculus. In any case, if you want to discuss this issue further, open a thread in GD, and I’ll participate as I can. The main point here is that many people, either for the reasons I’ve given or for other reasons (inherent rights philosophy, utilitarianism, etc.) consider Rand’s philosophy to be repulsive, not based on a shallow understanding of it, but based on a considered reckoning of its failings. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172/40 "2012-10-31T19:51:20Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > Who is Joss Whedon ? Here you go,[a handy link.](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=who+is+josh+whendon) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joss-whedon-endorses-romney/639172.md?page=3)