# Juan Williams Fired from NPR **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2010, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992 "2010-10-22T12:00:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/21 "2010-10-22T16:56:18Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I think people who are the voices of (credible) news organizations should know better than to air their controversial personal opinions, no matter how sincerely they are held. Even if Williams was able to separate those opinions from his reporting (and I have no doubt that he was), NPR’s image is compromised by keeping him on staff. Imagine if Walter Cronkite had talked in interviews about not wanting black boys near his white daughters during integration – it would have colored viewers’ perception of CBS, even if the reporting was identical. You know, i think that, in itself, would actually be something of a shame. I think that, in addition to fighting against bigotry and prejudice, we should be willing to accept that people can and do shed their prejudices over time, as the world changes and as they grow and mature and become better informed. In my time in high school , and for a time after i left school, i held onto a sort of casual racism. Growing up in Australia, i assumed, like many of my friends, that Aborigines were dirty and lazy, and i was annoyed that there were so many Asian immigrants in the suburbs where my school was. We would make derogatory remarks about the Vietnamese and the Chinese, referring to them as “slopeheads” and expressing a wish that they learn to speak English and/or go back where they came from. I was also, like most of the guys at my school, a terrible homophobe. I’m not exactly proud of all that, but i’m not going to deny that it happened, and i hope that people will judge me for who i am now rather than who i was back then. I also think, in Williams’ case, that he made very clear that his visceral reaction could and should be separated from his rational and intellectual views about equal treatment and about not mistaking all Muslims for extremists. > [@Giraffe](#): > > When it comes to news reporting, perception is critical. Williams should have known better. Unfortunately, you are correct here. Perception has become much more important in these issues than actual news values and journalistic ethics. News stations are happy to feed us the most ridiculous stories as news, and to blur the line between news and advertising, and to sensationalize some stories with round-the-clock saturated coverage (the 33 Chilean miners) while virtually ignoring others (the Chilean earthquake that killed over 500 people). I’m not going to go to the mat for Williams, because by all accounts he wasn’t that great a journalist anyway, and he had been on thin ice with NPR for a while. I’m still not convinced that his comments in this particular case warranted a dismissal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/22 "2010-10-22T17:05:29Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I think people who are the voices of (credible) news organizations should know better than to air their controversial personal opinions, no matter how sincerely they are held. Even if Williams was able to separate those opinions from his reporting (and I have no doubt that he was), NPR’s image is compromised by keeping him on staff. Imagine if Walter Cronkite had talked in interviews about not wanting black boys near his white daughters during integration – it would have colored viewers’ perception of CBS, even if the reporting was identical. > > When it comes to news reporting, perception is critical. Williams should have known better. But Williams wasn’t talking about his opinions, he was talking about his feelings, which are less easily swayed by logic. In the very same interview, he gave a rational defense of Muslims against the terrorist stereotype. In addition, Williams was an analyst, not a reporter, which carries a lowered standard of objectivity. I don’t think it makes sense to fire Williams over this single comment; however, given his history of such comments, it’s more understandable. [This story,](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130712737&ps=cprs) also from NPR, admits that > [@](#): > > Williams’ presence on the largely conservative and often contentious prime-time talk shows of Fox News has long been a sore point with NPR News executives. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/23 "2010-10-22T17:42:19Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > But Williams wasn’t talking about his opinions, he was talking about his feelings, which are less easily swayed by logic. I agree, but I’m not sure I understand what point you’re trying to make by raising the distinction. It’s perfectly human for Williams to feel the way he does – I’m not judging him for his feelings. However, in the job he was in, he should have known better than to air them publicly like he did. There are some jobs where you don’t get to air whatever thoughts cross your mind. The CEO of Ford might sincerely feel that Japanese cars are more reliable or that women are fundamentally worse drivers than men or that people who drive pickups are mouth-breathing hicks, but if he were to publicly discuss these thoughts, he would hurt the company. It doesn’t matter if it’s right or wrong, it’s reality. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/24 "2010-10-22T18:08:40Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I can imagine someone saying something like this. Hell, i have heard people say exactly this sort of thing when i lived in Baltimore: > > “When i’m walking home at night, and i see a young black man walking towards me down the street, i get nervous. I realize that not all black people are criminals, and that race is not a good indicator of someone’s propensity to commit a crime. I also understand that my fear is based, at least in part, on media sensationalism. But it’s a visceral reaction that my rational side can’t really control.” Pretty sure Jesse Jackson said something very similar to this. I’ll see if I can dig up a cite. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/25 "2010-10-22T18:15:26Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Pretty sure Jesse Jackson said something very similar to this. I’ll see if I can dig up a cite. heh, maybe it was Chris Rock ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/26 "2010-10-22T18:19:17Z")
So reporters are not allowed to express their feelings. But it’s impossible for them not to be influenced by their feelings. So if they have any negative feelings about a group this must influence their reportings on this group. But they are not allowed to tell us about their negative feelings. So, we won’t know when they are being affected and when not. Hmmm. Does not seem like a good system. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/27 "2010-10-22T18:29:34Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > So reporters are not allowed to express their feelings. > But it’s impossible for them not to be influenced by their feelings. > So if they have any negative feelings about a group this must influence their reportings on this group. > But they are not allowed to tell us about their negative feelings. > So, we won’t know when they are being affected and when not. > Hmmm. > Does not seem like a good system. There are so many things wrong with this haiku, I don’t even know where to begin… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/28 "2010-10-22T18:38:15Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I agree, but I’m not sure I understand what point you’re trying to make by raising the distinction. It’s perfectly human for Williams to feel the way he does – I’m not judging him for his feelings. However, in the job he was in, he should have known better than to air them publicly like he did. Fair enough, I suppose. I guess I’m so used to hearing people get away with making ridiculously over-the-top statements that this seems rather mild. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/29 "2010-10-22T18:39:59Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > Fair enough, I suppose. I guess I’m so used to hearing people get away with making ridiculously over-the-top statements that this seems rather mild. Ah - but that is what me, and I suspect a lot of people, like about NPR - it is not about histrionics or punditry, except in well-circumscribed applications… ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/30 "2010-10-22T18:44:50Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > There are so many things wrong with this haiku, I don’t even know where to begin… Think of it being sung by Springsteen, with a slow beat. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/31 "2010-10-22T18:45:28Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > So reporters are not allowed to express their feelings. > But it’s impossible for them not to be influenced by their feelings. > So if they have any negative feelings about a group this must influence their reportings on this group. > But they are not allowed to tell us about their negative feelings. > So, we won’t know when they are being affected and when not. > Hmmm. > Does not seem like a good system. Of course they can express their feelings, but if they say something wrong ,their station is allowed to not approve. He should have known better. But he may have just decided Fox was a better fit for him. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/32 "2010-10-22T18:46:22Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Ah - but that is what me, and I suspect a lot of people, like about NPR - it is not about histrionics or punditry, except in well-circumscribed applications… “that is what me…like about NPR” Yes, me like NPR. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/33 "2010-10-22T19:05:05Z")
It’s funny that just a little while ago a guy [was fired from his position as a voice actor on Geico because of a phone call he made to FreedomWorks](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/21/geico-fires-dc-douglas-vo_n_546038.html)- and we were told by the Right that this was perfectly acceptable behavior. Now, however, the situation’s pretty much reversed, and it’s suddenly an attack up on Free Speech. Funny how that works. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/34 "2010-10-22T19:46:12Z")
NPR may or may not have overreacted by firing the guy. I don’t know. I don’t listen to NPR and I’m not familiar with Williams. But I do think it’s hilarious how the Righties are falling all over themselves to latch onto this. Actual Twitter Tweet from Sarah Palin (sorry, but the woman just makes it _too_ easy): _“NPR defends 1st Amendment Right, but will fire u if u exercise it. Juan Williams: u got taste of Left’s hypocrisy, they screwed up firing you.”_ I’m actually a little disappointed she didn’t add an “LOL” at the end. Um, Sarah, you\* do \*realize that the First Amendment is about the scope of the federal government (“Congress shall make no law” and all that), and has nothing to do with corporations and their employees… right? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/35 "2010-10-22T20:30:09Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > It’s funny that just a little while ago a guy [was fired from his position as a voice actor on Geico because of a phone call he made to FreedomWorks](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/21/geico-fires-dc-douglas-vo_n_546038.html)- and we were told by the Right that this was perfectly acceptable behavior. > > Now, however, the situation’s pretty much reversed, and it’s suddenly an attack up on Free Speech. > > Funny how that works. Man, get it through your head. The right has taken hypocrisy to levels that were previously unimagined. Many of the people whining about Williams’ First Amendment rights being infringed upon are the same fuckers who seven years ago labeled a traitor anyone who dared call into question the Bush Administration’s motives in invading Iraq. As I said in another thread here, NPR handled this completely wrong. If they wanted to get rid of him, it would have been best to just sit him in a corner for awhile and let his contract expire. Instead they’ve provided the right with yet another faux-outrage to bitch about. Hell, if you had asked most conservatives three days ago what they thought of Williams - well, a lot of them probably wouldn’t have known who he was, but many of those who did would probably have said he was just another socialist, Obama-coddling media goon. I doubt that even now many of the talking heads bloviating about this actually give a shit about him, except that it provides them with another excuse to portray liberals as a bunch of Constitution trampling thugs. If nothing else, though, hopefully this puts to rest the lie that liberals don’t believe minorities can’t be bigoted. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/36 "2010-10-22T20:45:33Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > So reporters are not allowed to express their feelings. > But it’s impossible for them not to be influenced by their feelings. > So if they have any negative feelings about a group this must influence their reportings on this group. > But they are not allowed to tell us about their negative feelings. > So, we won’t know when they are being affected and when not. > Hmmm. > Does not seem like a good system. Are you pals with **pinkyvee** , by any chance, or is there some kind of carriage-return virus infecting the board? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/37 "2010-10-22T21:12:18Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The reason that Williams mentioned Muslims is precisely because of their association (stereotyped or not) with the 9/11 attacks and with terrorism in general… Or we could say that the reason Williams mentioned Muslims is precisely because he’s a coward who is afraid, because of 9/11 or whatever particular _excuse de jour_, that people who are different from him in some particularway are out to do him harm. Thirty five years ago he’d be found complaining about people who need to shave and get a haircut. It’s the same crap. ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/38 "2010-10-22T21:15:34Z")
> [@furlibusea](#): > > He had been warned in the past most notably when he referred to Michelle Obama as [Stokely Carmichael](http://www.npr.org/blogs/ombudsman/2009/02/juan_williams_npr_and_fox_news_1.html) ln a designer dress. . I would be flattered if someone compared me to Stokely. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/39 "2010-10-22T21:52:56Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Or we could say that the reason Williams mentioned Muslims is precisely because he’s a coward who is afraid, because of 9/11 or whatever particular _excuse de jour_, that people who are different from him in some particularway are out to do him harm. > Thirty five years ago he’d be found complaining about people who need to shave and get a haircut. It’s the same crap. Maybe. I’ve already said that i find his fears silly. The question, for me, is less about whether they are silly or not than about whether airing them publicly was inappropriate enough to justify termination. I don’t think it was. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992/40 "2010-10-23T04:02:39Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Pretty sure Jesse Jackson said something very similar to this. I’ll see if I can dig up a cite. He did. It’s quoted in the GD thread. You’ll see it quoted from time to time by a right winger whenever the subject turns to racial profiling and its pros and cons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juan-williams-fired-from-npr/557992.md?page=3)