# Judeo/Christian/Islamic problems with illicit drugs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2001, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369 "2001-07-21T22:42:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/1 "2001-07-21T22:42:18Z")
The Bible tells us that the Garden of Eden was created for us to take full advantage of, to watch over, and to care for, and that the only plant or animal off-limits to us was the tree of Knowledge, as far as I understand it. So then where do J/C/I religions get the tenent that a person should not smoke marijuana, or chew tobacco, or drink alcohol, or smoke opium, or eat mushrooms? Isn’t this using the plants that God gave us to our full advantage? Why would God have created or allowed to be created plants that were specifically “no-no’s”? Just to trip us up? Just to test us? Why would God create plants which are completely and utterly tempting and appealing and then punish us for using them, when using them is exactly what he gave us reign over in the first place? –Tim ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/2 "2001-07-21T22:51:46Z")
Good question, which I won’t try to answer at the moment, but I’d like to Xref this thread: [Is smoking a sin?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1456176) ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/3 "2001-07-21T22:57:17Z")
What I was told, way back when I still went to Sunday School, was that our bodies are temples and by doing all those “Bad Things” we were polluting that temple, which was not really ours, but God’s. I didn’t buy it. After all, this particular temple was already having problems with shoddy construction (allergies, asthma, etc.). Must not have been too important to Him. ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/4 "2001-07-22T00:35:33Z")
Arden, I think the thrust of the “Body a temple” idea is not that our bodies _are_ perfect, but that we need to try to _make_ them perfect to honor the body’s resident, the Holy Spirit. Personally, I view the brain as the most important part of the body (but look what’s telling me that 😃 ), and therefore strive to achieve mental perfection as well as physical perfection. Achievement of mental perfection would necessitate learning and understanding of all facets of mentality, be them spiritual, intellectual, physical, or chemical, and therefore do not see psychoreactive drugs as a problem. But of course, my parents do… so I need a better argument for Mom the next time she tells me that “God doesn’t like altered states of conciousness!” than “But God GAVE us these altered states of conciousness!” Thanks all who respond. –Tim ---
**Author:** ![JadedNaive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@JadedNaive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JadedNaive)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/5 "2001-07-22T07:28:17Z")
The Bible specifically warns against drunkeness (I don’t have a cite off hand but I’ll find one if you don’t believe it). I’ve always thought that the warning has more to do with impaired judgement than harming the body directly. If you’re drunk (or high) you’re more likely to do stupid, sinful things. Child abuse is strongly tied to drunkeness, and I think other violent crimes are too. Alcohol lowers inhibitions, so you don’t think before acting. I don’t have as much personal experience with other drugs, but I think most of them are much the same. Of course, addiction is also a factor. Addicts often do things they would never have previously considered in order to get more drugs. Allegience to the drug becomes stronger than allegience to God or morality, and I think you can see why that wouldn’t fit in well with Christian (or Jewish or Islamic) teaching. As for cigarettes, I don’t think that’s at all universally agreed upon as sinful. I think a lot of people are mixing up the anti-smoking propaganda they learned in school with their religion. And, it is my personal opinion that there’s nothing inherently sinful or unbiblical with drinking alcohol or using the milder drugs. It’s when it’s done in excess, or becomes an addiction, that there’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Kaje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kaje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaje)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/6 "2001-07-22T07:39:45Z")
I would say your best bet when mom says God doesn’t want you to do drugs is “That’s bullshit, I don’t buy it” And she really can’t do anything to prove her point except maybe something in the Bible, and we all know there’s a billion arguments against that. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/7 "2001-07-22T09:40:47Z")
Most religions require a nearly monomaniacal (except for **Polycarp** ) devotion to their individual doctrine. Using a mind expanding or altering substance might make a person reexamine their own core mindset. Few, if any, religions blatantly promote such autoscopic processes. ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/8 "2001-07-22T10:16:02Z")
Jaded: You are correct. Everything is relative. Use but don’t abuse. Fats and sugars are needed, but too much is bad. Drugs and alcohol are okay, but too much are bad. You make a strong point. Zenster: Any religion with a monopoly on the truth should willfully and knowingly encourage it’s members to seek out knowledge from another perspective. If the religion truly is the one and final answer, all other religions will eventually lead back to it. After all, the perfect jewel will remain perfect even after you’ve viewed all the other flawed gems. –Tim ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/9 "2001-07-24T10:34:51Z")
My old French teacher - who was also an Anglican priest - repeatedly told us that the best verse in the Bible was Psalms 104:15 - “And **wine that maketh glad the heart of man** , and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man’s heart.” His emphasis. Make of that what you will. ( **Zenster** , you really must remember that the Fundamentalist, biblical-literalist types are simply the anti-social, unrepresentative minority who give the rest of us a bad name. Nobody ever stopped me from examining my faith and my beliefs - quite the contrary, in some cases. (And, there _are_ religions that have a tradition of using mind-altering drugs - or of promoting altered mental states through other means. There’s quite a tradition of ecstatic visionary material in Christianity, come to that, mostly achieved through methods like fasting, self-hypnosis, or sometimes more extreme methods.) ---
**Author:** ![Mambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mambo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/10 "2001-07-24T17:57:10Z")
My understanding is that the word “sorcery/sorceries” in the Bible refers to drugs not wizardry and sorcery is condemned many times in the Bible. Why? What I’ve been taught is that when you do drugs/alcohol/cigarettes you become enslaved by them. Addiction is enslavement. The Bible also teaches that no slave can have two masters. So, when you allow drugs to control your life (and this is, unfortunately, what happens when people become regular users) you allow it to become your new master. The drugs take center square in your life and not God. The other problems that drugs bring are physical weakness and anti-social behavior. Drug users harm their bodies which is a big no-no in Christianity. They also start harmful friendships and a pattern of sinful behavior. Although some drugs such as marijuana may not seem as harmful as narcotics and such, they still do harm you spiritually, physically, and socially. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/11 "2001-07-24T21:15:04Z")
**Mambo** : > [@](#): > > So, when you allow drugs to control your life (and this is, unfortunately, what happens when people become regular users) you allow it to become your new master. The drugs take center square in your life and not God. Some people. Not everyone who uses drugs is an addict. > [@](#): > > Although some drugs such as marijuana may not seem as harmful as narcotics and such, they still do harm you spiritually, physically, and socially. Care to back that up, or is this your opinion stated as a fact? ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/12 "2001-07-24T21:57:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mambo \* > So, when you allow drugs to control your life (and this is, unfortunately, what happens when people become regular users) you allow it to become your new master. Your point is fair enough, with the nit pick that “regular users” do not necessarily become addicts. > [@](#): > > The other problems that drugs bring are physical weakness and anti-social behavior. Drug users harm their bodies which is a big no-no in Christianity. They also start harmful friendships and a pattern of sinful behavior. Again, fair enough, with the same nit-pick of overgeneralization. > [@](#): > > Although some drugs such as marijuana may not seem as harmful as narcotics and such, they still do harm you spiritually, physically, and socially. One point of dispute (beside the overgeneralization nit-pick) - my old rabbinical roomate rabbi informed me that one of the herbs mentioned in the OT as being burned in the Temple was cannabis. He also acknowledged that this translation was not universally accepted. Anyone have any knowledge about this? Sua ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/13 "2001-07-25T08:12:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mambo \* > **My understanding is that the word “sorcery/sorceries” in the Bible refers to drugs not wizardry …** There’s something (possibly) interesting here. The Latin word for “poisoner” (_veneficus_) is also used to mean “sorcerer” or “witch”. Is there a general tendency, in the ancient world, to equate the two? One can see why, in the absence of a system of scientific knowledge, someone who knows how to produce chemical effects could be suspected of witchcraft - is, this, perhaps, at the root of the attitude described in the OP? Not so much “drugs are sinful”, as a long-standing feeling that “you can’t trust these clever herberts who deal in funny mushrooms”? ---
**Author:** ![Mambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mambo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/14 "2001-07-25T17:12:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\ ***Mambo** : > > > [@](#): > > > > Although some drugs such as marijuana may not seem as harmful as narcotics and such, they still do harm you spiritually, physically, and socially. > > Care to back that up, or is this your opinion stated as a fact? \*\* “Soft” drugs do not have as immediate an impact in lives as the harder drugs do but the negative effects will be there. Spiritually: Drugs, including marijuana, oftentimes become the center of the person’s life. Getting a hold of the drugs becomes a priority. Also, primarily with narcotics, drugs can lead to other sins. For example, many addicts resort to stealing, prostitution, etc., to get high. Marijuana leads to other sins, such as sloth, although they creep into your life more gradually. Physically: All drugs have a negative physical effect on you, even marijuana. Alcohol damages your liver, smoking your lungs, snorting your brain. Socially: Drugs oftentimes lead to anti-social behavior. Drug users spend less and less time with their families and friends as the addiction progresses. The drugs themselves become a replacement for social interaction. I know these are pretty general statements but drugs, all kinds, do have negative consequences on the users that accumulate over time. With the harder drugs, the damage is seen much more rapidly. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2001, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/15 "2001-07-26T10:21:12Z")
**Mambo** : > [@](#): > > Spiritually: Drugs, including marijuana, oftentimes become the center of the person’s life. Getting a hold of the drugs becomes a priority. Also, primarily with narcotics, drugs can lead to other sins. For example, many addicts resort to stealing, prostitution, etc., to get high. Addicts, yes. But most drug users (especially marijuana users) aren’t addicts. > [@](#): > > Marijuana leads to other sins, such as sloth, although they creep into your life more gradually. Cite? Last I heard, “marijuana makes you lazy” was a myth. > [@](#): > > Socially: Drugs oftentimes lead to anti-social behavior. Drug users spend less and less time with their families and friends as the addiction progresses. The drugs themselves become a replacement for social interaction. Again, this only applies to addicts. And it doesn’t even have to involve drugs - some people would rather sit in front of the computer or TV, or write, or draw, than interact socially. ---
**Author:** ![Mambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mambo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/16 "2001-07-27T01:56:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\ ***Mambo** : > > > [@](#): > > > > Spiritually: Drugs, including marijuana, oftentimes become the center of the person’s life. Getting a hold of the drugs becomes a priority. Also, primarily with narcotics, drugs can lead to other sins. For example, many addicts resort to stealing, prostitution, etc., to get high. > > Addicts, yes. But most drug users (especially marijuana users) aren’t addicts. > > > [@](#): > > > > Marijuana leads to other sins, such as sloth, although they creep into your life more gradually. > > Cite? Last I heard, “marijuana makes you lazy” was a myth. > > > [@](#): > > > > Socially: Drugs oftentimes lead to anti-social behavior. Drug users spend less and less time with their families and friends as the addiction progresses. The drugs themselves become a replacement for social interaction. > > Again, this only applies to addicts. And it doesn’t even have to involve drugs - some people would rather sit in front of the computer or TV, or write, or draw, than interact socially. \*\* You’re right. But marijuana does lead to laziness and munchies whether or not you’re an addict. The effects are temporary though so they are not as _negative_ as the hardcore drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Zaph\_enath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Zaph\_enath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zaph_enath)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/17 "2001-07-27T09:21:02Z")
I’d like to bolster the points made by Steve Write, earlier: It is not Christianity that regards “drugs” – whatever individual christians may feel about it. The type of anti drug/alchohol sentiments you see now are more the result of Reformation ideas, developed maybe five hundred years ago. That’s the Puritans, though, not all of Christianity… Sure, there have always been ascetics in Christian tradition. But you will find that for most of Christian history, anyone who taught abstention from drugs would also have taught abstention from meat, dairy products, wealth, etc. But we are not all called to live as monks. I seem to recall an individual from Byzantium who was sent for some errand to “the West” (the jurisdiction of the Roman patriarchate). He came back complaining that they seemd to him very somber and lacking of joy. He mentioned that they did not drink wine or take opium as if it were abnormal. So I do not find it surprising that Western Christianity in general has a prohibitive attitude WRT mind altering substances. But even w/in the Western sphere, the Protestants are more prohibitive than the traditional Church, and the Fundamentalists most of all. The fact remains, though, that addicted individuals can cause quite a problem to society in general, and most cultures end up prohibiting one thing or another. Some of these prohibitions have made their way into various religious views. Just remember, the Bible has many more parts where it encourages drinking of wine than it does speaking against it. It is, furthermore, totally silent on the matter of all other controlled substances. This silence should not be taken to mean that such substances were not in use, but rather that they were never an issue. My Bishop told me of a recently converted individual who remarked that he was glad that he was Orthodox now, because he enjoyed smoking and drinking. Bishop told him never to identify the Church with those things just because he was permitted to engage in them responsibly. The point is that to the Church Fathers, responsible use of things like tobacco or alcohol was never an issue. However, addictive or otherwise irresponsible behavior of any kind was always looked down upon. To me, this view is much more mature, since it requires thought and responsibility, rather than black and white statements of do’s and do-not’s. Well, those are my two cents. Don’t spend 'em all in one place… - Zaph’enath ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/18 "2001-07-27T10:59:07Z")
In general, Judaism teaches that letting any of your hungers get out of control is a bad thing. Drinking on certain occasions is fine. In keeping with dietary laws, I suggest Manishewitz or Kedem for this puprpose. The seder, a ritual meal celebrating the exodus from Egypt, includes four cups of wine during the ceremony. Additionally, a cup of wine is set out for the prophet Elijah. On some holidays, Purim especially, drunkeness is encouraged. However, if you’re drunk most of the time, you’ve lost control of yourself and your life. ``` At the moment, I can't think of a specific Talmudic site against drugs. But, it' difficult to keep control of yourself while stoned, tripping, or otherwise under the influence of drugs. The Talmud also states that, unless they are immoral or contradict the commandments, the laws of secular authorities must be obeyed. Since I live in the USA, this means no drugs. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Frink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Mr.Frink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Frink)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/19 "2001-07-27T11:06:55Z")
OK…I’m prepared to be thrashed by an expert on Islam…but allow me to pass on an interesting insight on the Islamic and Hindu attitude toward Cannabis… From Terence McKenna’s **Food of the Gods: _A Radical History of Plants, Drugs, and Human Evolution_** : > [@](#): > > "Cannabis was used and regarded as a plant of great spiritual power for many centuries in India…General awareness of the properties of cannabis grew very slowly and cannot be assumed to be widespread until around the tenth century A.D., only shortly before the Islamic invasion of Hindu India. Cannabis had associations with the esoteric, hence secret, side of Muslim and Hindu religiousity. Esoteric spirituality, the yogic practices of saddhus, and the emphasis on the direct experience of the transcendent are all little more than aspects of the veneration of cannabis in India…Because the climate favored the growth of hemp and Islam encouraged its use over alcohol, in the Near Eastern and Arab worlds, cannabis became the intoxicant of choice for many. This predilection for hashish and cannabis was already very old at the time of the Prophet, _which explains why alcohol is explicitly forbidden to the faithful but hashish is a matter of theological disputation."_ (italics added by ME) I’ve also heard that Sufi Muslims make no secret of their use of cannabis as a source of religious inspiration. Also…There has been a lot of speculation among “scholarly types” that psychoactive chemicals may have actually influenced the development of religions. But that’s a debate for another day (and another thread, perhaps) ---
**Author:** ![ssj\_man2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ssj\_man2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssj_man2k)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2001, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369/20 "2001-07-28T07:38:12Z")
When you think about it, our natural life spans are only supposed to be about 30 to 40 years. So if you did use drugs, by the time you were dead, your body wouldn’t really be that messed up because of them. But now that we live so much longer, we have the potential to screw up our bodies alot more. I don’t know how this relates to this debate, but it does somehow. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judeo-christian-islamic-problems-with-illicit-drugs/73369.md?page=2)