# Judge clears 'Stairway to Heaven' copyright case for trial **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [April 12, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012 "2016-04-12T16:39:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/61 "2016-04-17T00:00:50Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > What would the infringement consist of? It’s not copyrightable to list types of girls in sundry places. > > I think parody is protected anyway. Those are both different points than the one I was addressing. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/62 "2016-04-17T02:01:05Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I doubt “Back in the USSR” ever was an issue for the Beach Boys. Paul McCartney began writing the song while the Beatles and the Beach Boys were attending a retreat in India. Mike Love encouraged McCartney to write the song in a similar style to “California Girls.” I’m sure the Beach Boys saw it more as being inspired than as infringing on their song. Right. That’s why I said if they wanted to make it an issue. They obviously didn’t and don’t. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/63 "2016-04-17T02:55:36Z")
Jimmy Page on how _Stairway to Heaven_ was written (BBC). Published on Oct 10, 2014. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/DDo4CA13LbY/maxresdefault.jpg "Jimmy Page: How Stairway to Heaven was written - BBC News") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDo4CA13LbY) ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/64 "2016-04-17T03:05:50Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Those are both different points than the one I was addressing. You had another point? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/65 "2016-04-17T03:40:06Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You had another point? I believe it was a pretty clear and simple point. Is it not? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/66 "2016-04-20T05:33:43Z")
That riff may be in the public domain. [http://wmgk.com/2016/04/19/stairway-to-heaven-lawsuit/](http://wmgk.com/2016/04/19/stairway-to-heaven-lawsuit/) > [@](#): > > Randy California’s estate claims that Zeppelin borrowed the riff from Spirit’s ‘Taurus’. Some researchers from Digital Music News have unearthed a clip from a 17th century composer that bears resemblance to the riff in question which is public domain. Will this news blow this case wide open? Take a listen and make your own judgement. There are clips at the link. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/67 "2016-04-20T13:02:43Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > That riff may be in the public domain. > [http://wmgk.com/2016/04/19/stairway-to-heaven-lawsuit/](http://wmgk.com/2016/04/19/stairway-to-heaven-lawsuit/) > There are clips at the link. Huh. Not quite exactly the same chromatic bass (similar, though), but surprisingly reminiscent melody line. Melodically, I find this closer to Stairway than Taurus. This one at least has some of the same melodic movement while Taurus’s take is just simple static broken chords. But, shocker! You look hard enough, and you’ll find a similar song by someone else somewhere in music history. And pretty much where I thought you’d find it: Renaissance or Baroque music, as I mentioned upthread. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/68 "2016-04-20T13:04:01Z")
And it looks not to be exactly a new revelation, either. I just found [this Youtube clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKpbJ5Kjy2I) from 2011 pointing it out. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/69 "2016-04-20T13:08:32Z")
Plus, there’s also [this Davey Graham song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWeejHJxGjs) from 1959 to compare with Taurus and Stairway. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/70 "2016-04-20T13:51:38Z")
And (sorry for four-in-a-row), it’s worth noting that Jimmy Page was a Davey Graham fan and influenced by him, so Stairway could likely have been inspired by both of those sources. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/71 "2016-04-20T16:27:50Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > (Another was “Feelings” by Morris Albert, a song which, were it mine, I would probably let people steal it rather than admit to writing). 🙂 Actually, Morris Albert was successfully sued in the early 80s by French songwriter Loulou Gaste, who claimed that “Feelings” infringed on the melody of his 1957 song “Pour Toi.” ([Feelings (Morris Albert song) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feelings_%28Morris_Albert_song%29)) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/72 "2016-06-16T13:15:44Z")
Trial underway, so reviving this thread. Apparently Jimmy indicated he NEVER heard the song, but has the album in his record collection. Probably had to be absolute about it due to legal advice, but seems sketchy. On another note: > [@](#): > > The questioning of Page drew laughs several times, like when Malofiy asked him if he was a session musician. Page told the court he began playing guitar at age 12. > > “Later on you had a gift of playing the guitar?” Malofiy asked. > > Page, one of rock’s premiere guitarists, broke into a wide smile and said, “Well, yeah.” The gallery on both sides in the courtroom erupted in laughter. Hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/73 "2016-06-16T15:14:10Z")
Rolling Stone’s [breathless coverage of the trial](http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/jimmy-page-testifies-as-stairway-to-heaven-spirit-trial-heats-up-20160616). ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/74 "2016-06-16T15:32:49Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Trial underway, so reviving this thread. > > Apparently Jimmy indicated he NEVER heard the song, but has the album in his record collection. Probably had to be absolute about it due to legal advice, but seems sketchy. The article I read said he had 5 _Spirit_ albums in a 4,000 vinyl album collection. I doubt anyone can definitively say he even owned the album before _Stairway to Heaven_. The presence of the album in his extensive collection can be easily countered by any competent defense attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/75 "2016-06-16T15:47:38Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > The article I read said he had 5 _Spirit_ albums in a 4,000 vinyl album collection. I doubt anyone can definitively say he even owned the album before _Stairway to Heaven_. The presence of the album in his extensive collection can be easily countered by any competent defense attorney. Yet he knew the song “Fresh Garbage,” from the same album, well enough that Zeppelin used to play it onstage in 1969. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/76 "2016-06-16T15:51:21Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > The article I read said he had 5 _Spirit_ albums in a 4,000 vinyl album collection. I doubt anyone can definitively say he even owned the album before _Stairway to Heaven_. The presence of the album in his extensive collection can be easily countered by any competent defense attorney. They toured with Spirit. “Taurus” was played. They were huge fans of west coast rock. “Never heard it” is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/77 "2016-06-16T19:03:49Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > True. But Led Zeppelin will always be identified as part of the psychedelic sixties music scene…Some of that music spilled over into the early seventies but most people think of it as 60’s genre music. Odd perspective. In my mind, Zeppelin didnt spill over into the 70’s, they _owned_ the 70’s. Perhaps you’re confusing them with The Doors? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/78 "2016-06-16T19:16:21Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > Odd perspective. In my mind, Zeppelin didnt spill over into the 70’s, they _owned_ the 70’s. > > Perhaps you’re confusing them with The Doors? 😉 Music owned NOTHING in the 70’s, so your statement is invalid. Led did what they could given the hand they were dealt but ownership, not even close, however more traction in the 80’s. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/79 "2016-06-16T19:43:41Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Yet he knew the song “Fresh Garbage,” from the same album, well enough that Zeppelin used to play it onstage in 1969. > [@drad\_dog](#): > > They toured with Spirit. “Taurus” was played. They were huge fans of west coast rock. “Never heard it” is ridiculous. [Exhibit A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk2fkUzhG_Y) for the proposition that Jimmy Page is full of shit :). ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012/80 "2016-06-16T20:47:24Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Music owned NOTHING in the 70’s, so your statement is invalid. Led did what they could given the hand they were dealt but ownership, not even close, however more traction in the 80’s. Ah, c’mon! You wouldn’t argue that Zep is one of the biggest 70’s bands? I took “owned” as a bit of fine Rock hyperbole 😉 Page is in it to win it, so assume he is following a specific legal strategy. Interesting to see where this goes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-clears-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-case-for-trial/752012.md?page=5)