# Judge cries when sentencing Mormon bishop to prision for rape **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 16, 2017, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551 "2017-04-16T10:57:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/21 "2017-04-16T15:55:02Z")
So, shame on his victims for not forgiving their rapist, got it. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/22 "2017-04-16T15:59:04Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > It staggers me that so many people still think that the justice system is clogged with innocent men and the lying women who are accusing them of rape out of sheer feminist spite. It’s a theme I see often on this board, no less. It’s sickening. No fucking kidding. If the judge should be crying about anything, it’s about the underage victims of the sexual predator, not that the sick fuck got punished. It’s not about “blind revenge” :rolleyes: it’s about keeping sexual predators off the street. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/23 "2017-04-16T16:07:08Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > You’re all missing the underlying point: the crying stunt could seriously screw things up on appeal, keeping the bishop out of slam until they have another trial. That judge knew exactly what he was doing, and should have recused himself. Please tell me more about this appeal. Will the defense appeal on the grounds that the judge was too sympathetic towards them and get the conviction reversed? Or will the prosecution appeal the fact that it won? Who has grounds for appeal here and what are those grounds? By the way, if the judge wanted to get the bishop’s case tossed, he could simply have ruled that the prosecution failed to present evidence beyond a reasonable doubt and no reasonable jury could find him guilty. No tears necessary. The guy would get off scott free without having to take the chance that the appeals court would come to the “wrong” conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/24 "2017-04-16T16:51:18Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > According to Stanford University, false accusations of rape average about 2% of reported cases, which is about on a par with other felonies. I found a Stanford page that indeed makes that claim, and cites as a source “according to the FBI.” However, the FBI report I found seems to indicate 8% of claims are unfounded, and does not report on a 2% false claim. Either way, the numbers are, as you suggest, quite low. > [@](#): > > Do people not realize what it takes to pursue prosecution for rape? It’s not something done lightly in a fit of pique No, but it happens for more reasons than pique. > [@](#): > > Elizabeth Paige Coast, then 18, testified that when she was 10, she was in her grandmother’s yard when a 14-year-old boy from across the street named “John” pinned her against a garage, fondled her and forced her to perform a sex act. > > Asked why she did not tell anyone, she said: “I didn’t know what had happened. I didn’t understand it, but I knew it was wrong so I thought they would get mad at me. And, plus, I was just really, really embarrassed and I didn’t want to tell anybody.” The accused was Jonathan Montgomery. On her testimony, he was convicted: > [@](#): > > In her closing argument, Leslie Siman-Tov, then the assistant commonwealth’s attorney who prosecuted the case, said: “Judge, she has no ax to grind. There’s no reason for her to make this up.” > > “She is simply telling the court what happened; if there was some kind of motive to get him in trouble, maybe that is something that I could understand, but she comes in here with no motive,” Siman-Tov said. But after he spent four years in prison: > [@](#): > > “I had no idea how far this lie would go,” she said. > > Earlier, Coast took the stand and under questioning by her lawyer, Ronald Smith, Coast said the whole thing started when she was 17 years old and was caught reading adult material on the Internet by her mother, who Coast described as strict and religious. > > Her mother wanted to know why she was viewing the material and suggested perhaps that she been sexually assaulted. She said yes, hoping the matter would drop, but her mother kept pressing her for more information. > > Under pressure for the name of her assailant she gave hem Montgomery’s name, someone who had moved away years earlier. > > “I just thought it would go away,” she said. When Montgomery, who had moved to Florida, was arrested she said she stuck with the story out of fear. She entered a plea of guilty to one count of perjury and was sentenced to two months in jail and $90,000 in restitution to Montgomery, who was released. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/25 "2017-04-16T16:56:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Did he fail to issue an appropriate sentence? He issued a sentence. The perp can walk in a couple of years. Is that the same sentence a non-bishop would have received? Fine, then. I suspect, however, a comparative review would show non-Mormons, lapsed Mormons and other riff raff getting far longer sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/26 "2017-04-16T17:36:43Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I am sorry, but WTF? He sentenced the guy to 10 years to life. He got 1-to-15 and 5-to-life, concurrent. With the average good behavior cut plus things like time served and model prisoner credit, he could be out in two years. Or never. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/27 "2017-04-16T18:03:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Coast said the whole thing started when she was 17 years old and was caught reading adult material on the Internet by her mother, who Coast described as strict and religious. > > \*\*Her mother wanted to know why she was viewing the material and suggested perhaps that she been sexually assaulted. \*\* Not to derail the thread but it’s pretty ignorant of a mother to think this. There are natural libido reasons why teenagers are interested in sex, duh. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/28 "2017-04-16T19:48:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Not to derail the thread but it’s pretty ignorant of a mother to think this. There are natural libido reasons why teenagers are interested in sex, duh. Not girls, in some folks’ minds. Boys, sure, but girls merely put up with sex for the privilege of God’s plan for having babies. Coast’s mother sounds like someone that might agree with that view. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/29 "2017-04-16T21:56:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not girls, in some folks’ minds. Boys, sure, but girls merely put up with sex for the privilege of God’s plan for having babies. Coast’s mother sounds like someone that might agree with that view. Yes. There’s the fear of god, but also the fear of MOM! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/30 "2017-04-16T22:25:31Z")
The 8% figure from the FBI is for " unfounded" accusations, as determined by local law enforcement. Unfounded does not necessarily mean false. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/31 "2017-04-16T23:22:26Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > The 8% figure from the FBI is for " unfounded" accusations, as determined by local law enforcement. Unfounded does not necessarily mean false. What does unfounded mean in that context then? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/32 "2017-04-16T23:31:24Z")
Not sufficient evidence to bring a charge. That’s different from a false report. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/33 "2017-04-16T23:34:14Z")
[sidetrack continued] > [@Velocity](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Her mother wanted to know why she was viewing the material and suggested perhaps that she been sexually assaulted. > > Not to derail the thread but it’s pretty ignorant of a mother to think this. There are natural libido reasons why teenagers are interested in sex, duh. > [@Bricker](#): > > Not girls, in some folks’ minds. Boys, sure, but girls merely put up with sex for the privilege of God’s plan for having babies. Coast’s mother sounds like someone that might agree with that view. Plus it is often mentioned among the “warning signs” that a child may have been molested, an unusual or abnormal interest in sexual matters. Therefore if a teenage girl is interested in porn, which is abnormal because girls only put up with sex for the privilege of God’s plan, then there must be some nefarious happenings behind it… [/sidetrack] Meanwhile, back to the case at hand – as the judge, you have to measure your words since you are speaking for The Court, not for yourself as a private citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/34 "2017-04-17T00:21:23Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Not sufficient evidence to bring a charge. That’s different from a false report. But not an obvious false report. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/35 "2017-04-17T00:39:19Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > But not an obvious false report. If the police department decided that it’s not really a rape because they had a previous sexual relationship, or she didn’t fight back, or there wasn’t obvious physical trauma, or maybe she just seems like she wants attention…those could all be classified as “unfounded accusations.” It depends on the local police department, and their attitude, in 1996. toward rape. There was a case I initially read about on here about a woman who went to the police, saying that someone had broken into her home and raped her. The police decided she was not credible, and charged her with filing a false police report. Much later, they caught a serial rapist who had her photo as a trophy. Until they caught the serial rapist, that woman would have been a statistic of someone bringing an “unfounded” accusation of rape. ETA: She did recant her story. But an obviously false report would also be classified as “unfounded,” so the number can’t easily be determined. Here is the story: > **[An Unbelievable Story of Rape](https://www.propublica.org/article/false-rape-accusations-an-unbelievable-story)** > > An 18-year-old said she was attacked at knifepoint. Then she said she made it up. That’s where our story begins. And here is the thread: > **[Lack of trust in women is still a huge problem (a very sad rape story)](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=778454)** > > Here is the link to the story. It is quite long – here is how I would sum it up: A teenage girl who had a rough and troubled early life was assaulted in her home. She reports it to the police. In their interviews with her, the cops go after things... ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/36 "2017-04-17T03:26:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not girls, in some folks’ minds. Boys, sure, but girls merely put up with sex for the privilege of God’s plan for having babies. Coast’s mother sounds like someone that might agree with that view. And sometimes a mother accidentally find one of her son’s gay porn magazines and immediately starts fearing he was molested. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/37 "2017-04-17T05:09:27Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Not sufficient evidence to bring a charge. That’s different from a false report. By the FBI definition a case that is cleared because there is insufficient evidence is Administratively Cleared. A case that there is sufficient evidence for arrest and the suspect is known but there is some other reason (like he’s dead) to not go forward is Exceptionally Cleared. If there is enough evidence and an arrest it’s Closed By Arrest. Unfounded means it didn’t happen. North of the border things might be different. Since each department in the country has to turn in Uniform Crime Reporting statistics to the Feds the same language is universal. Having dealt with the subject as a SVU detective for five years I have no problem stating that the vast majority of rape allegations are not false regardless of if there is enough evidence to go forward. I am certainly not willing to put a number on the amount of false reports. I will say that it would be difficult to determine since in my experience a large number of false reports fall apart before they even become formal allegations. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/38 "2017-04-17T05:29:09Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Meh, its not easy sending people to prison when you actually have to look into their eyes and pronounce sentence. Does he cry every time? Because if he does he should get stock in Kotex. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/39 "2017-04-17T06:45:31Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Does he cry every time? Because if he does he should get stock in Kotex. B/c Kotex are more absorbent than tissues, is that what you mean? Or are you implying the judge is menstruating b/c his actions make him almost a female? There’s enough to loathe about this judge w/o dragging gender into it. Living in Utah, I can tell you this is a hot conversational topic the past couple of days and even the young LDS (Mormons) I know are embarrassed. Aside from what’s been mentioned in this thread, they also think he cried b/c he fears not getting re-elected, since LDS are a reliable voting bloc. The older LDS in our conversation fell back on, “There must be something more to the girls’ story that the dad is covering for, so they don’t get in trouble for something they shouldn’t have been doing.” and “There’s three sides to every story and we weren’t there!!” If any of you would like to be disgusted by the [Church’s past advice to rape victims](http://www.sltrib.com/home/3862702-155/how-outdated-mormon-teachings-may-be), find ‘The Miracle of Forgiveness’ by Spencer Kimball, where victims are asked to repent for healing. It’s still in use and circulation, though it isn’t officially supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551/40 "2017-04-17T08:59:55Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > By the FBI definition a case that is cleared because there is insufficient evidence is Administratively Cleared. A case that there is sufficient evidence for arrest and the suspect is known but there is some other reason (like he’s dead) to not go forward is Exceptionally Cleared. If there is enough evidence and an arrest it’s Closed By Arrest. > > Unfounded means it didn’t happen. North of the border things might be different. > > Since each department in the country has to turn in Uniform Crime Reporting statistics to the Feds the same language is universal. Thank you **Loach** for the details. > [@](#): > > (snip). I will say that it would be difficult to determine since in my experience a large number of false reports fall apart before they even become formal allegations. Or the victim fabricated the identity of the accused to but not the act itself. Like one case I did where the victim flat out lied about who had raped her, in order to protect the actual perpetrator; her Uncle and his buddies who basically used her as a sex toy for years. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-cries-when-sentencing-mormon-bishop-to-prision-for-rape/784551.md?page=3)