# Judge: evidence "too repulsive for jury:"? Pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp cops plea for reduced sentence **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 1, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374 "2013-07-01T17:41:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/1 "2013-07-01T17:41:40Z")
[Washington Post:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/us-judge-says-case-too-horrific-for-jury-allows-plea-deal-for-man-who-used-young-son-in-porn/2013/06/28/28a41fc4-e053-11e2-a0de-145598a7b2b7_singlePage.html?tid=obnetwork) This guy bought a child, falsely “adopted” it, began raping it at age 2, brought it around the world for others to rape it. He and his friends made copious videos. He was just sentenced. U.S. District Judge Sarah Evans Barker said the man sentenced Friday deserved a harsher punishment, but she didn’t want to subject jurors to such disturbing evidence. “This is not a case that lends itself to easy understanding,” Barker said during the hearing. I’m almost speechless. How on Earth is this permissible? Good thing she didn’t preside at the Nuremberg Trials. ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/2 "2013-07-01T17:47:26Z")
Judges typically accept pleas, though usually without comment. I don’t see how this is controversial. It’s not like he got off light; 40 years is still a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/3 "2013-07-01T17:48:20Z")
There is a general question here? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/4 "2013-07-01T18:44:03Z")
OP here. The GQ is how a judge decides what is best reasons for a plea. It seems perverted (as in perversion of justice) that this one. Depending on how the judge deems the sensitivities of a jury, any number of violent crimes would never be tried by jury. Yes, I know the prosecutor was ok with it. Still, has “jury sensitivities” ever been used this way? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/5 "2013-07-01T18:51:04Z")
You seem to be assuming that “jury sensitivity” is the reason why the judge accepted the plea deal. There is no reason to assume that, aside from sensationalistic headline writing. The judge accepted the plea deal and then made a comment about jury sensitivity. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/6 "2013-07-01T18:55:14Z")
Would you also not refer to the boy as “it”? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/7 "2013-07-01T19:03:58Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > You seem to be assuming that “jury sensitivity” is the reason why the judge accepted the plea deal. There is no reason to assume that, aside from sensationalistic headline writing. The judge accepted the plea deal and then made a comment about jury sensitivity. “The judge overseeing the case said she accepted the plea agreement only because the videos were too horrific to show a jury.” ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/8 "2013-07-01T19:06:12Z")
I tried to read the article, but couldn’t make it past the first sentence. Purchased? ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/9 "2013-07-01T19:30:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Would you also not refer to the boy as “it”? A baby or young child may correctly be addressed as ‘it’ in English until gender is determined. (For the conversation.) As in the classic phrase “It’s a boy”. Now that you have stated the child’s gender, he’ll have a masculine pronoun. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/10 "2013-07-01T19:41:12Z")
I suspect that the argument could be made that it would be next to impossible for a jury to render an objective and emotionally detached verdict upon being shown such videos, rather than simply deciding “HANGING’S TOO GOOD FOR HIM” right off the bat. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/11 "2013-07-01T19:43:41Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > OP here. The GQ is how a judge decides what is best reasons for a plea. It seems perverted (as in perversion of justice) that this one. > > Depending on how the judge deems the sensitivities of a jury, any number of violent crimes would never be tried by jury. > > Yes, I know the prosecutor was ok with it. > > Still, has “jury sensitivities” ever been used this way? I’m sure it seemed like a good idea at the time - saying she was looking out for the jury, I mean - but I can almost guarantee that wasn’t the real reason. 90%+ of all criminal cases are plea bargains. They have to be, or the system would grind to a halt. Or we’d need 10 times as many judges, and juries, and courthouses, etc. Anyway, the question is why should she try this case, instead of some other one? Given that there are plenty of cases where the prosecutors and the defendant have **not** reached an agreement, and that will **have** to be tried, and that they have reached an agreement in this case, and both sides are saying they don’t want a trial, forcing them to have a trial they don’t want seems like a poor use of limited judicial resources. Besides, 40 years is a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/12 "2013-07-01T19:53:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I suspect that the argument could be made that it would be next to impossible for a jury to render an objective and emotionally detached verdict upon being shown such videos, rather than simply deciding “HANGING’S TOO GOOD FOR HIM” right off the bat. If I was in _that_ jury pool, I’d do whatever is necessary to avoid being empaneled. So I imagine that it would have been difficult to seat a jury. ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/13 "2013-07-01T21:09:00Z")
At least the boy survived. [This one’s](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/jessica-lynn-howell-murder-boyfriend-rape-daughter_n_3461125.html) worse. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/14 "2013-07-01T22:30:33Z")
I’ve been told that in a federal court 40 years means 40 years. So he’ll be 82. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/15 "2013-07-01T23:05:50Z")
> [@Doug\_Bowe](#): > > I’ve been told that in a federal court 40 years means 40 years. So he’ll be 82. I think in this case, the use of “it” is more appropriate - that’s not human. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/16 "2013-07-02T00:32:52Z")
I’m sure the 12 people who would have had to sit through that trial are grateful for her actions. Or they would be, if they knew who they were. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/17 "2013-07-02T00:49:13Z")
> [@Doug\_Bowe](#): > > I’ve been told that in a federal court 40 years means 40 years. So he’ll be 82. In addition, if he lives long enough to serve the full sentence, odds are close to 100% the government would continue to hold him under civil commitment statutes by tagging him as a “sexually dangerous person.” Long story short, this plea deal ensures that this guy will never leave prison. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/18 "2013-07-02T04:54:03Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > A baby or young child may correctly be addressed as ‘it’ in English until gender is determined. (For the conversation.) > As in the classic phrase “It’s a boy”. Now that you have stated the child’s gender, he’ll have a masculine pronoun. Yes, but gender was already determined in the article. Hence **Guin** asking the baby to be referred to as a “him.” And I’ve never heard “it” used for a baby or toddler outside that particular phrasing, myself. And that phrasing is only used right at birth. Afterwards, the phrasing “he’s a boy” or “she’s a girl” seems to be preferred. I’d always assumed such usage is as correct as using “he” for indeterminate gender–an old rule that people don’t really follow anymore. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/19 "2013-07-02T05:02:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yes, but gender was already determined in the article. Hence **Guin** asking the baby to be referred to as a “him.” > > And I’ve never heard “it” used for a baby or toddler outside that particular phrasing, myself. And that phrasing is only used right at birth. Afterwards, the phrasing “he’s a boy” or “she’s a girl” seems to be preferred. > > I’d always assumed such usage is as correct as using “he” for indeterminate gender–an old rule that people don’t really follow anymore. I don’t like referring to a human being by it’s gender: the child has a name. Why is everybody being a tool about calling a baby “it”? Boy, girl, they’re nouns. Nouns can be called “it”. If we want to get personal, let’s send it/him/her a gift. Otherwise, let’s not be so quick to imply that we are trying to depersonalize a human being. Being obnoxious about the whole thing cannot help the child. It only adds to your own feelings of self-importance. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374/20 "2013-07-02T22:08:38Z")
What if a juror decides that they won’t look at pictures or videos introduced into evidence, relying on spoken descriptions from the prosecutor? Will the juror be allowed to do this or will he/she be subject to punishment, even if they made clear their objections to viewing such material before they were selected? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-evidence-too-repulsive-for-jury-pedo-slaver-rapist-pimp-cops-plea-for-reduced-sentence/662374.md?page=2)