# Judge Lets Killer Drunk Driver Off Because He's Spoiled **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 12, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119 "2013-12-12T00:00:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/81 "2013-12-14T16:47:17Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Personally I’d bet there is more to it. The media reports about [the twinkie defense](http://www.snopes.com/legal/twinkie.asp) are coming to mind at the moment. That cite shows that Dan White’s lawyers did not, in fact, offer the “Twinkie Defense”. It is thus not applicable to this case, in which Couch’s lawyer _did_, in fact, offer the “Affluenza Defense” (and could only obfuscate, but not deny, this fact in his Anderson Cooper interview). > [@MsRobyn](#): > > I’m sure that there are lawyers lined up around the block offering their services to the next of kin of the victims. Suing the kid and his family into the next millennium seems to be the logical next step. After all, if they’re that rich, they’re worth suing. Maybe Couch’s parents could hire the same lawyer to argue that they shouldn’t have to pay because they’re too rich and privileged to be subject to such privation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/82 "2013-12-14T17:10:01Z")
Seems a fair inference to me that the judge took a bribe. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/83 "2013-12-14T20:01:09Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > That cite shows that Dan White’s lawyers did not, in fact, offer the “Twinkie Defense”. It is thus not applicable to this case, in which Couch’s lawyer _did_, in fact, offer the “Affluenza Defense” (and could only obfuscate, but not deny, this fact in his Anderson Cooper interview). **Mtgman** ’s point (and mine) is that the media _may have_ misreported or oversimplified the case and the public is running with this oversimplified version. E.g. the lawyers could’ve mentioned it, but it was not important or just one issue among many for the judge’s decision. Or maybe not, but it wouldn’t be the first time that a news story reaches UL status. None of this mitigates the fact that he may have been sentenced overly lightly. In White’s case, Twinkies were mentioned but a) not as a causal factor but as possible evidence that White was “off” and not acting normally, and b) not a major part of the case nor the “evidence” that made the sentencing decision. But now all anyone thinks is that his slimy lawyers claimed “Twinkies made him kill” and that sucker jury believed it! ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/84 "2013-12-14T21:18:45Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > But now all anyone thinks is that his slimy lawyers claimed “Twinkies made him kill” and that sucker jury believed it! Snopes summed it thusly: > [@](#): > > Better to believe the jury was hoodwinked by some pseudo-scientific nonsense about junk food than to acknowledge the fact that our legal system sometimes absolves defendants of responsibility for the most heinous of crimes. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/85 "2013-12-15T02:22:29Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > And walks away scot-free with 4 bodies under his belt. One of his victims was 21, another was 24. they and two others are dead, the lives of their loved ones shattered. Not because the kid was 16, but because he was drunk and got behind the wheel. > > Your point that others have driven drunk without killing someone…well I don’t even know how that could be important. All’s well that end’s well, I guess? No harm, no foul? Nope. What’s his crime? Driving drunk, or being in an accident? Because if it’s driving drunk, well, then everybody who drives drunk should get 20 years in prison. (In which case, be prepared to build much much bigger prisons.) If it’s being in an accident, well, most traffic fatalities are caused by by people who are stone-cold sober. What are you going to do with them? > [@](#): > > I hate to be an ass, but you got cites for stone cold sober drivers killing pedestrians or motorists. I mean those that we’re texting while driving, or looking in the back seat talking to their kids or looking for their CD holder or something else when their eyes were supposed to be on the road. > > To be clear, what I looking for is an accident without negligence. Where someone did NOT think that an activity other than driving was more important to focus on while they were driving. Because if they were doing that, I’m pefectly OK with them getting 10 years in prison too. Glad to know you’re a perfect driver. It’s funny, because every other driver I see on the road is not. Including me. Most people are just lucky. Some people are not. > [@](#): > > The average weight of car is between 3 and 4 thousand pounds. Pickup trucks, like the one nimrod was driving, can weigh anywhere fromf 7500 to12,000 pounds. Add some speed that mass and you have something dangerous. And to try to operate it while impaired is criminal and by no means an accident. > > Idiot may not have intended that anyone die, but driving drunk is a bit like being blindfolded and firing a gun in random directions. You may not hit anything, but that’s just dumb luck. It is more than possible that you will. And what you do hit can get fucked up pretty bad. Most DWIs never hit anybody or anything. Yet they’ve _done_ the exact same thing this kid did. They were just lucky. So again, if driving drunk is his crime, which seems to be what you’re saying, why not throw every DWI in prison for 20 years? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/86 "2013-12-15T02:30:37Z")
Meanwhile, no one has anything to say about a store that lets some teenagers steal _two cases_ of beer. Why should a stores have no responsibility to keep their stuff secure? Why should they not lose their liquor license? Oh, the store is a _victim_ in this? Give me a break. Business as usual really needs to change. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/87 "2013-12-15T03:03:46Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > **Mtgman** ’s point (and mine) is that the media _may have_ misreported or oversimplified the case and the public is running with this oversimplified version. E.g. the lawyers could’ve mentioned it, but it was not important or just one issue among many for the judge’s decision. Or maybe not, but it wouldn’t be the first time that a news story reaches UL status. As I noted in my earlier post, we have it straight from the horse’s, er, mouth. He obfuscated, but couldn’t outright deny that he had posited an “affluenza” defense or claim that it was a trivial sidelight to his case. > [@For You](#): > > Meanwhile, no one has anything to say about a store that lets some teenagers steal _two cases_ of beer. Why should a stores have no responsibility to keep their stuff secure? Why should they not lose their liquor license? Oh, the store is a _victim_ in this? Give me a break. Business as usual really needs to change. Rules against confronting shoplifters are SOP among major retailers, for obvious liability reasons. The wisdom of this policy is another question. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/88 "2013-12-15T03:38:17Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Not to be overly dramatic but I can’t imagine being the guy whose wife and daughter were killed by this little bastard. I seriously would dedicate the rest of my existence to killing him, then I’d probably move on to the judge and his defense attorney. Please, _please_…the rational, civilized thing to do would be to sue him and his family. That way, you have more money for munitions, and an escape plan to a country with no extradition treaty. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/89 "2013-12-15T04:12:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The article states that Couch was sentenced to ten years of probation. It also states that the defense presented the “affluenza” defense. \*\* It does not clearly state, however, if the two were connected.\*\* Yes. The same point was made by this [Slate article](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/12/12/ethan_couch_affluenza_texas_teen_spared_prison_time_in_deadly_drunk_driving.html) (recommended). I see that the teen was going 70 in a 40 MPH zone. > [@Mithras](#): > > Do we know that it was a light sentence? What I mean is that while I personally agree that his punishment should have been much more severe, is what he was given within the range of what others that go through the juvenile justice system receive or not? > [@Monty](#): > > Agreed. Consider my question modified to include: Under current sentencing guidelines, was this sentence too light? ## I’d like to know the answer to this question as well. (Efforts upthread acknowledged). I generally don’t have especially punitive tastes insofar as law enforcement is concerned, though I am in favor of roughly even application. I’m skeptical about the utility of given a 16 year old teen 20 years for drunk driving and speeding. Doesn’t mean I like the kid. The kid’s in a residential treatment facility. How long is that suppose to last? Is it a _de facto_ jail? I’m guessing not, but… Texas. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/90 "2013-12-15T05:09:15Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Nope. What’s his crime? Driving drunk, or being in an accident? Because if it’s driving drunk, well, then everybody who drives drunk should get 20 years in prison. (In which case, be prepared to build much much bigger prisons.) If it’s being in an accident, well, most traffic fatalities are caused by by people who are stone-cold sober. What are you going to do with them? > > Glad to know you’re a perfect driver. It’s funny, because every other driver I see on the road is not. Including me. Most people are just lucky. Some people are not. > > Most DWIs never hit anybody or anything. Yet they’ve _done_ the exact same thing this kid did. They were just lucky. > > So again, if driving drunk is his crime, which seems to be what you’re saying, why not throw every DWI in prison for 20 years? So what? You think the little shit should get off because driving drunk is common? Fuck that. And I’d be fine with first time DWI’s losing there license and second offence being prison time. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/91 "2013-12-15T06:52:14Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Nope. What’s his crime? Driving drunk, or being in an accident? Because if it’s driving drunk, well, then everybody who drives drunk should get 20 years in prison. (In which case, be prepared to build much much bigger prisons.) If it’s being in an accident, well, most traffic fatalities are caused by by people who are stone-cold sober. What are you going to do with them? Being in an accident - even a fatal accident - is not automatic proof of wrongdoing. If some dumbass walks out into traffic and gets killed, it is not the fault of the driver that hit him. Similarly, it is possible to to imagine someone under the influence of alcohol getting a DUI despite not doing anything especially unsafe - sleeping inside of a stationary vehicle, for example. None of this is true here. This little shit _was_ drinking and driving and _was_ speeding, and the evidence proves that this was _not_ some edge case where this was not dangerous behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/92 "2013-12-15T08:29:10Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > What is this kid supposed to be getting treatment for? I’m not sure. There’s no cure for being a cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/93 "2013-12-15T08:54:53Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I seriously would dedicate the rest of my existence to killing him, then I’d probably move on to the judge and his defense attorney. If this is true, then you seriously need professional help, preferably before something happens to trigger your vigilante desire. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/94 "2013-12-15T09:14:48Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > If this is true, then you seriously need professional help… Nah, I’m sure that he could find some guys willing to do it _pro bono_. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/95 "2013-12-15T11:54:39Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Nope. What’s his crime? Driving drunk, or being in an accident? Because if it’s driving drunk, well, then everybody who drives drunk should get 20 years in prison. (In which case, be prepared to build much much bigger prisons.) If it’s being in an accident, well, most traffic fatalities are caused by by people who are stone-cold sober. What are you going to do with them? His crime is causing an accident while driving drunk. The law is not a group of Jesuits: both intention and what actually happened are relevant. We punish attempted crimes more lightly than completed crimes. This is the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/96 "2013-12-15T17:12:37Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > ## Yes. The same point was made by this [Slate article](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/12/12/ethan_couch_affluenza_texas_teen_spared_prison_time_in_deadly_drunk_driving.html) (recommended). I see that the teen was going 70 in a 40 MPH zone. I’d like to know the answer to this question as well. (Efforts upthread acknowledged). > > I generally don’t have especially punitive tastes insofar as law enforcement is concerned, though I am in favor of roughly even application. I’m skeptical about the utility of given a 16 year old teen 20 years for drunk driving and speeding. Doesn’t mean I like the kid. > > The kid’s in a residential treatment facility. How long is that suppose to last? Is it a _de facto_ jail? I’m guessing not, but… Texas. From the Slate article: _“Money always seems to keep [the kid] out of trouble,” said Eric Boyles, whose wife and daughter were killed in the crash. “Ultimately today, I felt that money did prevail. If [he] had been any other youth, I feel like the circumstances would have been different.” Or, as Dallas Morning News editorial writer Mike Hashimoto put it Wednesday: “Despite all the death in his wake, Couch didn’t learn a thing he didn’t already know: It’s far better to come from that wealthy place where actions seldom have those nasty old consequences. That’s for other folks.”_ The residential treatment facility is a year-long program in California. Cost: $450,000. (His parents paid.) For ordinary defendants, long-term treatment usually means SAFP, which takes place in prison. I’ve never been, but I can tell you that people who are looking to go there are desperate not to go. If the outrage is over rich people having it better than the rest of us, I say: duh. They get better houses, better medicine, and they don’t have to make choices like: should I take my kid out of the school where she risks getting beaten up every day, or should I pay the rent. They also get better justice. If you pay a team of lawyers, along with expert witnesses, psychiatrists, and a team of PIs, you’re likely to do better than if you’re relying on a single court-appointed attorney, who’s getting paid peanuts (literally) for the same work. There is a solution, but given how much taxpayers hate defendants, lawyers, and taxes, it’s not likely to happen. Btw, and fwiw, here’s another case that happened here in Austin. She ran over a pedestrian, and left left her lying in the road. She also got ten years pro, and yes, her parents were also rich. She was 25. [http://www.statesman.com/news/news/crime-law/nestande-gets-10-years-probation-for-fatal-wreck/nWXkt/](http://www.statesman.com/news/news/crime-law/nestande-gets-10-years-probation-for-fatal-wreck/nWXkt/) ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/97 "2013-12-15T17:14:36Z")
> [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](#): > > So what? You think the little shit should get off because driving drunk is common? Fuck that. And I’d be fine with first time DWI’s losing there license and second offence being prison time. So he should lose his license right? This was his first time. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/98 "2013-12-15T17:16:09Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Being in an accident - even a fatal accident - is not automatic proof of wrongdoing. If some dumbass walks out into traffic and gets killed, it is not the fault of the driver that hit him. Similarly, it is possible to to imagine someone under the influence of alcohol getting a DUI despite not doing anything especially unsafe - sleeping inside of a stationary vehicle, for example. > > None of this is true here. This little shit _was_ drinking and driving and _was_ speeding, and the evidence proves that this was _not_ some edge case where this was not dangerous behavior. So the kid is speeding, and runs into a telephone pole. What should happen to him? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/99 "2013-12-15T17:30:52Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > **Mtgman** ’s point (and mine) is that the media _may have_ misreported or oversimplified the case and the public is running with this oversimplified version. E.g. the lawyers could’ve mentioned it, but it was not important or just one issue among many for the judge’s decision. Or maybe not, but it wouldn’t be the first time that a news story reaches UL status. None of this mitigates the fact that he may have been sentenced overly lightly. I know its stupid to get in the way of RO but what the hell. You are right people are being outraged over the oversimplification of the story. For one, it’s not the Affluensa Defense. It wasn’t a defense at all. It wasn’t stated that he was not guilty due to being rich. It was used as mitigating factor in sentencing. All sorts of things are brought up as mitigating factors. And they didn’t say he should get off because he was spoiled. The defense and their experts stated that his parents neglected and mentally abused him leaving him with an emotional age of 12. Abuse and neglect are brought up as mitigating factors all the time in cases on all income levels. It’s up to the judge to accept them or not. By all means RO away. But try not to do so in ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/100 "2013-12-15T17:54:36Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Uh, it’s not inevitable at all. Tons of people get arrested with blood alcohol higher than that, and don’t hurt anybody at all. Even more make it home without getting stopped by the police. Others take their eyes off the road for a minute, when they’re stone cold sober, and kill a family of four in a minivan. > > Again, he was 16. A sixteen year old is not an adult. This is why there are two sets of laws against drunk driving injure someone and the stronger set (felony) applies. Even at the age of 12 I knew you didn’t get drunk and drive. Oh and if you are stone sober and kill someone with you car there are reckless driving charges that mirror the DUI statutes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119.md?page=6)