# Judge Lets Killer Drunk Driver Off Because He's Spoiled **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 12, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119 "2013-12-12T00:00:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/121 "2013-12-17T06:05:00Z")
Well, not gonna argue that if it’s true, but it could also just be my crappy google-fu 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/122 "2013-12-17T16:17:04Z")
If the prosecutor was asking for 20 years, it’s safe to assume he was being tried as an adult. 20 years is the maximum for a 2nd degree felony, in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/123 "2013-12-17T16:38:25Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No, I mean what factors are the prosecution and judge required to take into account to make the decision to seek (for the prosecution) and grant (for the judge) a motion to try the minor as an adult? The rule appears to be: > [@](#): > > The juvenile court may waive its exclusive original jurisdiction and transfer a child to the appropriate district court or criminal district court for criminal proceedings if: > > (1) the child is alleged to have violated a penal law of the grade of felony; > (2) the child was: > (A) 14 years of age or older at the time he is alleged to have committed the offense, if the offense is a capital felony, an aggravated controlled substance felony, or a felony of the first degree, and no adjudication hearing has been conducted concerning that offense; or > (B) 15 years of age or older at the time the child is alleged to have committed the offense, if the offense is a felony of the second or third degree or a state jail felony, and no adjudication hearing has been conducted concerning that offense; and > (3) after a full investigation and a hearing, the juvenile court determines that there is probable cause to believe that the child before the court committed the offense alleged and that because of the seriousness of the offense alleged or the background of the child the welfare of the community requires criminal proceedings. I was going to suggest that I assumed it focused on the child, but it sounds like it can focus on the child or the seriousness of the offense. > [@LinusK](#): > > If the prosecutor was asking for 20 years, it’s safe to assume he was being tried as an adult. 20 years is the maximum for a 2nd degree felony, in Texas. Maybe. But not necessarily, I don’t think. The link that **Zyanthia** provided directs you to [Sec 54.04](http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/FA/htm/FA.54.htm) of the Juvenile Justice Code, which seems to permit a 20 year max for a juvenile who commits one of several enumerated offenses. But I could be reading that wrong. My assumption was that he was being tried as an adult becuase it was so public. But Texas might be different about that. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/124 "2013-12-17T17:12:42Z")
Been wanting to post to this thread or the GQ thread for several days but just haven’t had the time. > [@LinusK](#): > > If the prosecutor was asking for 20 years, it’s safe to assume he was being tried as an adult. 20 years is the maximum for a 2nd degree felony, in Texas. No, he was being tried as a juvenile. Like Loach has said, juvenile courts are run differently, and typically have much greater focus on rehabilitation than an adult criminal court would. If he had been transferred to an adult criminal court, or if he had committed the offenses when he was, say, 19 years old, chances are extremely, extremely good that he would have been sentenced to considerable prison time, and with multiple victims chances are almost as good that he would have received consecutive (aka “stacked”) sentences, at least in some courts. Criminal district court judges dealing with adult felonies have experience in handing out lengthy sentences and do it with some frequency for serious crimes, but juvenile courts are usually run by county court at law judges whose primary job is handling adult misdemeanors, or by family court district judges who don’t handle adult criminal matters at all. If the charged offense is anything short of a sadistic capital murder, it’s hard to get a juvenile court judge to max out a sentence on a first time offender. Moreover, in juvenile court the person is explicitly referred to as a child, and the law expressly states that rehabilitation of the child is to be a consideration, so that juvenile courts will sometimes bend over backwards to rehabilitate a child who commits a criminal offense that would get a lengthy prison sentence for an adult. In some circumstances (maybe not these, but some) that approach makes sense, as you’d hope that society would try to rehabilitate a child before packing him off to prison and writing off any future he may have. The media has run wild with the “affluenza” aspect of the case, but it’s probably a much bigger factor that Couch was sentenced by a family court judge in a juvenile court concerned with “rehabilitation of the child” rather than an adult criminal district court judge. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/125 "2013-12-17T19:02:18Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Assuming my whole family got taken out, a defense lawyer who got the shitball away free, and corrupt judge (I could only sanction the judge if corrupt, not just stupid), I can certainly understand the sentiment. I’m not saying that I would take this course, but I could understand the desire of going all “Law Abiding Citizen.” That’s crazy thinking! What you should do is kill the kid and then hire that defence lawyer. He clearly knows his business 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/126 "2013-12-17T20:55:07Z")
Thanks, **Falchion**. I appreciate the effort you went to in finding that. I also appreciate that the statute mentions the welfare of the community. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/127 "2013-12-17T22:13:45Z")
This kid should thank his lucky stars that all he did was steal booze, drive drunk, kill four people and cripple two others. I pray that this early intervention will put him on the straight and narrow before he turns to [more serious crimes](http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/Man-Sentenced-To-Prison-For-Theft-Of-Sandiwch-From-Local-Subway-236054211.html) and ends up serving hard time in prison. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/128 "2013-12-17T22:38:26Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > This kid should thank his lucky stars that all he did was steal booze, drive drunk, kill four people and cripple two others. I pray that this early intervention will put him on the straight and narrow before he turns to [more serious crimes](http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/Man-Sentenced-To-Prison-For-Theft-Of-Sandiwch-From-Local-Subway-236054211.html) and ends up serving hard time in prison. Jokes aside, the key to that is this part: > [@](#): > > When a worker at Subway demanded the rest of the money, the man refused to pay and walked out of the shop. > > The employee followed him and once outside a scuffle broke out between the two in which the employee received minor injuries. If he’d left it at stealing the sandwich, or if he was able to run off before they laid hands on him, it would have been misdemeanor theft. When he fought them, he turned it into robbery, a felony. The story also leaves out a couple of important details: he apparently also had pending charges of burglary of a habitation and criminal mischief, but more importantly, he accepted the 3 year sentence for the robbery as a plea bargain in part because he’d been in jail long enough to be eligible for parole as soon as he pleaded. A plea deal that gets a defendant out immediately on parole is much more enticing than getting several years of probation. A more complete article: [Man sentenced to 3 years in prison after sandwich theft](http://www.wacotrib.com/news/courts_and_trials/man-sentenced-to-years-in-prison-after-sandwich-theft/article_00a6e546-c09d-5f64-a81c-fd7473e849a6.html). The titles on both articles are a little misleading, but I guess “Man sentenced to three years for robbery” doesn’t grab the attention quite the same way. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/129 "2013-12-17T22:50:48Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Been wanting to post to this thread or the GQ thread for several days but just haven’t had the time.No, he was being tried as a juvenile. Like Loach has said, juvenile courts are run differently, and typically have much greater focus on rehabilitation than an adult criminal court would. > > If he had been transferred to an adult criminal court, or if he had committed the offenses when he was, say, 19 years old, chances are extremely, extremely good that he would have been sentenced to considerable prison time, and with multiple victims chances are almost as good that he would have received consecutive (aka “stacked”) sentences, at least in some courts. Criminal district court judges dealing with adult felonies have experience in handing out lengthy sentences and do it with some frequency for serious crimes, but juvenile courts are usually run by county court at law judges whose primary job is handling adult misdemeanors, or by family court district judges who don’t handle adult criminal matters at all. If the charged offense is anything short of a sadistic capital murder, it’s hard to get a juvenile court judge to max out a sentence on a first time offender. Moreover, in juvenile court the person is explicitly referred to as a child, and the law expressly states that rehabilitation of the child is to be a consideration, so that juvenile courts will sometimes bend over backwards to rehabilitate a child who commits a criminal offense that would get a lengthy prison sentence for an adult. In some circumstances (maybe not these, but some) that approach makes sense, as you’d hope that society would try to rehabilitate a child before packing him off to prison and writing off any future he may have. The media has run wild with the “affluenza” aspect of the case, but it’s probably a much bigger factor that Couch was sentenced by a family court judge in a juvenile court concerned with “rehabilitation of the child” rather than an adult criminal district court judge. You’re right: it was juvenile court. FWIW, Grits for Breakfa st has an excellent article about it: [Grits for Breakfast: Ethan Couch and the media outrage machine](http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2013/12/ethan-couch-and-media-outrage-machine.html) ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/130 "2013-12-17T22:52:59Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > You’re right: it was juvenile court. FWIW, Grits for Breakfa st has an excellent article about it: [Grits for Breakfast: Ethan Couch and the media outrage machine](http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2013/12/ethan-couch-and-media-outrage-machine.html) Saw that, I started to link to it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/131 "2013-12-18T06:02:24Z")
I’ve been in and out of the thread so I don’t know if this has been asked and answered already, but what happens if he violates his probation? Will the judge presiding over that hearing have the option to send him up for the 20 he was originally looking at? Will it make any difference if he violates probation after he turns 18 instead of while he is still a minor? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/132 "2013-12-18T08:19:47Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > I’ve been in and out of the thread so I don’t know if this has been asked and answered already, but what happens if he violates his probation? Will the judge presiding over that hearing have the option to send him up for the 20 he was originally looking at? He was sentenced to ten years in prison, which was suspended and probated for ten years. If his probation is revoked he’s looking at up to ten years in prison. [Quote=Projammer] Will it make any difference if he violates probation after he turns 18 instead of while he is still a minor? [/QUOTE] Only in terms of where he serves his sentence. Once he reaches a certain age he’s looking at serving his sentence in the adult prison system instead of in the Texas Youth Commission. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/133 "2013-12-18T15:27:43Z")
[Here come the civil suits!](http://www.seattlepi.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Teen-Drunk-Driver-With-Affluenza-Is-Being-Sued-5072123.php) > [@](#): > > Eric and Marguerite Boyles have filed one lawsuit on behalf of Hollie Boyles and her daughter, Shelby, seeking more than $1 million, according to NBC. Marla Mitchell, the mother of Breanna, is also suing for unspecified damages, as is Shaunna Jennings, the wife of the youth pastor who was killed. > > Couch also faces two lawsuits from passengers from in his own truck. One seeks $20 million on behalf of a teen who was thrown from the truck during the crash and can no longer speak or move, and the other seeks unspecified damages on behalf of another teen passenger. That’s one way to find out who your real friends are: cripple them in a drunk driving accident and see which ones sue. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/134 "2013-12-18T20:05:54Z")
So a couple of questions. Are there any terms of his parole besides staying at a $450,000 country club? Is he banned from using alcohol? Did he lose his license as a result of this? If so, for how long? If so, would driving without a license violate his parole (see #1)? ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/135 "2013-12-18T20:33:29Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So a couple of questions. > Are there any terms of his parole besides staying at a $450,000 country club? Is he banned from using alcohol? > Did he lose his license as a result of this? If so, for how long? If so, would driving without a license violate his parole (see #1)? The terms of parole always include not breaking the law, so since he’s 16, he is at least banned from drinking for 5 years (and very likely the whole time, it’s very common for that to be one of the terms even with a crime that wasn’t alcohol-related, or just was loosely, e.g. your crime was domestic violence but you happened to have had a few beers before it happened even though you always beat your wife when sober too), and if he lost his license (it would be insane if he didn’t, but who knows), driving anyway would be a violation. Ten years on parole/probation is no joke. If he doesn’t seriously straighten out, there’s pretty much no chance that he won’t violate it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/136 "2013-12-18T20:34:48Z")
This spoiled asshole and his asshole family (both), should be dragged into civil court and sued right out of existence. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/137 "2013-12-18T20:43:15Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So a couple of questions. > Are there any terms of his parole besides staying at a $450,000 country club? Is he banned from using alcohol? > Did he lose his license as a result of this? If so, for how long? If so, would driving without a license violate his parole (see #1)? He’s on probation, not parole. Probation is what you get in lieu of incarceration, parole is what you get when you’re released from incarceration early. Probation is more restrictive than parole. Probationers are typically required to abstain from alcohol and stay out of bars, support their dependents, get and maintain employment, avoid hanging out with criminals, pay all fines and fees on time and report to the probation officer when ordered, allow the probation officer to visit him in his home or work unannounced, submit to random drug and alcohol testing at his own expense, attend AA and participate in any drug and alcohol treatment mandated by the court, keep a curfew, commit no new offenses, and whatever else the court requires. Some courts may also require that probationers wear an ankle monitor that tells the PO if they are out after curfew or if they have been drinking alcohol, or that they take Antabuse while on probation. As to his license, it will be automatically suspended for one year; the judge could make surrendering his license and not driving a condition of probation longer than that. Driving without a valid license is a new criminal offense and is a violation of his probation. If he is ever allowed to drive, he will be required to put an deep lung air device (aka ignition interlock) at his own expense on any vehicle he drives which will test his breath for alcohol before the car will start and retest every twenty minutes that he drives. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/138 "2013-12-18T20:52:58Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > [Here come the civil suits!](http://www.seattlepi.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Teen-Drunk-Driver-With-Affluenza-Is-Being-Sued-5072123.php) > > That’s one way to find out who your real friends are: cripple them in a drunk driving accident and see which ones sue. 1 million? i expected at least 10-20 times that. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/139 "2013-12-18T23:07:36Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Ten years on parole/probation is no joke. If he doesn’t seriously straighten out, there’s pretty much no chance that he won’t violate it. Actually, it IS a joke if you got money. Lindsay Lohan taught us that. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119/140 "2013-12-19T19:58:02Z")
No, Lohan makes it a joke because she is a “celebrity.” This punk is just rich, so his chances of getting hit with serious jail time are higher. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-lets-killer-drunk-driver-off-because-hes-spoiled/676119.md?page=8)