# Judge limits Biden administration contact with social media firms {Overturned June 26,2024} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 4, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583 "2023-07-04T21:17:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/101 "2023-07-12T06:37:30Z")
Well I can tell you that, at least for New Zealand "In particular, freedom of expression is preserved in section 14 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 (BORA) which states that: " **Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the right to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form**". ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/102 "2023-07-12T06:42:56Z")
@Common_Tater - It seems that you are somewhat misinformed and suffering under a bit of a delusion of American Exceptionalism A very quick google shows - [Countries with Freedom of Speech 2023](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-freedom-of-speech) According to this, USA doesn’t even make the top 25 countries, despite the value that is placed on free speech by the citizenry ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/103 "2023-07-12T20:20:05Z")
Okay, as was requested, let us try to get this back on track, please. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/104 "2023-07-12T20:58:30Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > A very quick google shows - [Countries with Freedom of Speech 2023](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-freedom-of-speech) Right - a “quick” google shows that. Lots of countries _claim_ to have free speech, then carve out all sorts of exceptions to render it meaningless. Take the time to drill down and find out what’s what. Good try though. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/105 "2023-07-12T21:22:49Z")
Well there are 29 countries rated as having more freedom of speech than the US, but yannow, horses and water and stuff when the horses are special ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/106 "2023-07-12T21:38:27Z")
The problem with the government controlling ‘misinformation’ and ‘disinformation’ is that they are the main purveyors of it, and are not to be trusted as gatekeepers in any way. They are lying liars who lie - all of them. Demanding that they be the arbiters of truth is incredibly dangerous. Or ask yourselves - how would you feel about the government regulating speech if Donald Trump,is president? Do you trust that they’ll give YOUR ideas a fair shake before censoring them if they don’t like them? As for ‘reasonable limits’ on speech, the problem there is that the speech that most needs protecting is speech that the establishment doesn’t like. Carving out exceptions for ‘misinformation’ will just get everything they don’t like classed as misinformation. For example, suggesting a lab leak origin for Covid got you banned from social media if you suggested it early in the pandemic because the government flagged it as ‘dangerous misinformation’ even though it’s pretty clear now that it was true, and they almost certainly knew it at the time. The same goes for the ‘Russian disinformation’ claim for the Hunter Biden laptop and all kinds of other stuff that was passed off as ‘disinformation’ by the government but later turned out to be true. Everyone ahould be free to say what they want, short of yelling fire in a crowded theater. The proper answer to bad speech is good speech, Gagging people never makes things better. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/107 "2023-07-12T21:43:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > For example, **suggesting a lab leak origin for Covid got you banned from social media** if you suggested it early in the pandemic because the government flagged it as ‘dangerous misinformation’ even though it’s pretty clear now that it was true, and they almost certainly knew it at the time. This is simply not true. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/108 "2023-07-12T21:45:38Z")
Who’s suggesting that the government should be arbiters or gatekeepers of truth? > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The proper answer to bad speech is good speech And yet, this court has prohibited the government from engaging in good speech. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/109 "2023-07-12T21:49:36Z")
Right. I’m fundamentally against the idea that the _government_ should be the arbiters of what’s true or untrue. That said, if every example of speech that was stifled on social media was unmitigated bullshit, as seems to be the case, while government mouthpieces deliver evidence-based information, well… let’s just say that we’re pretty far off from an Orwellian nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/110 "2023-07-12T21:59:50Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > This is simply not true. > **[Facebook lifts ban on posts claiming Covid-19 was man-made](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/may/27/facebook-lifts-ban-on-posts-claiming-covid-19-was-man-made)** > > Social network says policy comes ‘in light of ongoing investigations into the origin’ of virus [https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-07/facebook-youtube-erred-in-censoring-covid-19-misinformation?in\_source=embedded-checkout-banner](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-07/facebook-youtube-erred-in-censoring-covid-19-misinformation?in_source=embedded-checkout-banner) > **[COVID-19 misinformation by governments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_misinformation_by_governments)** > > During the worldwide COVID-19 pandemic, many people began to spread false or un-confirmed data and information. This included politicians and other government officials from administrations in several countries. Misinformation about the virus includes its origin, how it spreads, and methods of preventing and curing the disease. Some downplayed the threat of the pandemic, and made false statements about preventative measures, death rates and testing within their own countries. Some have also spr... ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/111 "2023-07-12T22:16:42Z")
Lab leak and man-made are not the same thing at all. 😆 It’s a lab investigating diseases, it can leak diseases it had without actually making them. My house is full of furniture. I’ve never made my own chair. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/112 "2023-07-12T23:16:15Z")
Lab leak and man made are not synonyms. Only the latter was in issue on social media. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/113 "2023-07-12T23:29:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Who’s suggesting that the government should be arbiters or gatekeepers of truth? Er, everyone who ever enacted or enforced a law against fraud? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/114 "2023-07-12T23:55:07Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > For example, suggesting a lab leak origin for Covid got you banned from social media Interesting, given that I can find lots on the social media I consume assuring me that a lab leak origin for Covid is nonsense since Covid is a government, psyop, plandemic, conspiracy, by them (Jews), to depopulate ~~the planet~~ our beautiful flat Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/115 "2023-07-13T01:37:23Z")
Does New. Zealand explicitly guarantee it in common law? Does it hold the force of law, or is it just kind of a nice thing to have they wrote down somewhere, until the government decides they really aren’t that into you any longer? This is what I’m getting at. New Zealand is even arguably civilized, at least until recently. I’m not sure the US qualifies. Australia has no protections. Canada? Not in practice. UK? No. Germany? No. I just took issue with the statement, free speech is something that is easy to pay lip service to, and see it getting trampled all over the place routinely. It isn’t surprising to see America ranked poorly, but then I can’t think of any notable outpost of free speech right now, especially any of the so-called “civilized” countries. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/116 "2023-07-13T12:46:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > For example, suggesting a lab leak origin for Covid got you banned from social media if you suggested it early in the pandemic because the government flagged it as ‘dangerous misinformation’ **even though it’s pretty clear now that it was true, and they almost certainly knew it at the time**. My bold. Don’t forget this part. This part is also bullshit. Where are you getting your information on the lab leak theory Sam? Same place you got your information on when the Omicron variant emerged? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/117 "2023-07-13T12:57:13Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The same goes for the ‘Russian disinformation’ claim for the Hunter Biden laptop and all kinds of other stuff that was passed off as ‘disinformation’ by the government but later turned out to be true. Which specific ‘Russian disinformation’ claims for the Hunter Biden laptop from the government are you referring to? I’m not aware of any. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/118 "2023-07-13T15:13:05Z")
The ones we’ve debunked over and over and over every time he brings them up, but which he keeps bringing up anyway. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/119 "2023-07-13T15:53:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The problem with the government controlling ‘misinformation’ and ‘disinformation’ The government suggesting to a social media company that some posters are violating the company’s own terms of service is not the government controlling information. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583/120 "2023-07-13T16:26:48Z")
And a government forcing a social media company keep posters who violate terms of services would be an unconstitutional restriction on the company’s right to free speech. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-limits-biden-administration-contact-with-social-media-firms-overturned-june-26-2024/986583.md?page=7)