# Judge: Names of attackers confidential. You talk about it anyway. Free speech or contempt? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121 "2012-07-23T12:18:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/21 "2012-07-23T15:27:34Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > How did the boys share the photos of her? > > I thought the DA would consult her on the plea bargain before hand. Why wasn’t this done? Some states have a “victim’s rights’” statute that requires various levels of notification beforehand, but I don’t know any state that actually requires the victim’s approval of a plea deal. But my knowledge on the issue is not encyclopedic. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/22 "2012-07-23T15:49:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I didn’t want to get into the rather coy terminology of the juvenile justice system. We call it “seeking adjudication” or “seeking disposition” down here. > > ETA: Apparently, only the DJJ calls it that. The judiciary still calls it guilty/not guilty. Heh. In Virginia, it’s “not responsible,” or “delinquent.” Or a “status offender,” which is a juvenile who is found to have committed an act which is prohibited but which would not be a crime if committed by an adult. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/23 "2012-07-23T16:26:31Z")
Given the cases in which shield laws against publishing the names of rape victims have been struck down (e.g. _Cox Broadcasting Corp. v. Cohn_), it’s hard to imagine that a prohibition against publishing the name of a rapist could possibly pass constitutional muster. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/24 "2012-07-23T16:38:42Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Given the cases in which shield laws against publishing the names of rape victims have been struck down (e.g. _Cox Broadcasting Corp. v. Cohn_), it’s hard to imagine that a prohibition against publishing the name of a rapist could possibly pass constitutional muster. I think this pretty much covers it. > [@](#): > > Our holding in this case is narrow. There is no issue before us of unlawful press access to confidential judicial proceedings, see Cox Broadcasting Corp. v. Cohn, 420 U.S., at 496 n. 26, 95 S.Ct., at 1046 n. 26; there is no issue here of privacy or prejudicial pretrial publicity. At issue is simply the power of a state to punish the truthful publication of an alleged juvenile delinquent’s name lawfully obtained by a newspaper. The asserted state interest cannot justify the statute’s imposition of criminal sanctions on this type of publication. > > Smith v. Daily Mail Pub. Co., 443 U.S. 97, 105-06 (1979) As long as the information is lawfully obtained, it can be published. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/25 "2012-07-23T16:52:39Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Given the cases in which shield laws against publishing the names of rape victims have been struck down (e.g. _Cox Broadcasting Corp. v. Cohn_), it’s hard to imagine that a prohibition against publishing the name of a rapist could possibly pass constitutional muster. The rapist is a juvenile. I don’t think Cox addresses that. ETA: But RNATB’s cite does. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/26 "2012-07-23T16:55:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because she was present for the closed hearing. That is, Kentucky law closes hearings for juveniles. As the victim, she is permitted to attend, but by doing so she becomes aware of confidential information; the judge is permitted to order her not to reveal it. Okay, so she agreed to the condition. So, she didn’t have to attend. Is that correct? Follow up: if she did not attend the hearing and found out about the punishment from someone else, perhaps via a friend or family member of one of the molesters, she would then be able to share whatever information she thought to be true. Is that right? Or if I found out about the punishment, would I be barred from revealing information that is supposedly “sealed”. Are there any limits on what a non-participant might say? Also, when a victim is brought into one of those closed hearings, how powerfully does a judge usually admonish those present? Is it just a , “you all know this is a closed hearing right, and you’re not supposed to divulge what happens here to anyone, right?”? Or is it something more formal? Might a judge even ask those present to sign a piece of paper stating that they understand the confidentially of the proceedings and agree to them? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/27 "2012-07-23T16:59:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Okay, so she agreed to the condition. So, she didn’t have to attend. Is that correct? It’s not clear that she was there at all. The OP article says she was unaware of the sentence when she tweeted the names of the accused. [She _didn’t_ reveal what the sentence was, apparently](http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/kentucky-teen-savannah-dietrich-faces-charge-for-naming-attackers). She knew their names because… well, presumably because she was present at the rape. If they hadn’t pled guilty, though, she would have been compelled to testify, assuming she wanted her accusations to be in evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/28 "2012-07-23T17:30:55Z")
She should tweet the names daily, and set up a facebook page naming these pukes and showing their pictures (and by ‘puke’, I mean the rapists, the DA and the Judge). She should then set up a paypal account to get donations to help pay her fines and\or pay her attorney to keep her out of jail. I will be first in line to donate. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/29 "2012-07-23T18:12:37Z")
Typo, you may be interested in this facebook group: [Facebook](http://www.facebook.com/HelpSavannahDietrich) ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/30 "2012-07-23T18:14:49Z")
By the way, what is sexual assault? Is it rape in all but name, or is it relatively minor stuff like pinching someone’s arse, or is a broad spectrum? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/31 "2012-07-23T18:19:43Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > By the way, what is sexual assault? Is it rape in all but name, or is it relatively minor stuff like pinching someone’s arse, or is a broad spectrum? It depends on where you are (at least in the US). In this case, it’s a euphemism, because Kentucky doesn’t recognize a crime of sexual assault. They categorize sex crimes as either rape, sodomy, sexual abuse or sexual misconduct. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/32 "2012-07-23T18:37:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because she was present for the closed hearing. That is, Kentucky law closes hearings for juveniles. As the victim, she is permitted to attend, but by doing so she becomes aware of confidential information; the judge is permitted to order her not to reveal it. So her being sexually assaulted is considered confidential because she went to the hearing but wouldn’t be if she didn’t go to the hearing? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/33 "2012-07-23T18:39:20Z")
The facts developed _during the hearing_ are considered confidential because she attended. She was not required to keep the fact that she was assaulted, in and of itself, confidential at any time. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/34 "2012-07-23T18:52:35Z")
My concern here is that these kids are free to assault again, and aren’t even on any kind of sex offender registry. By tweeting their names, she is performing a valuable community service in warning other females to stay away from these guys. At this point, that appears to be the only way to stop them from doing this sort of thing, because they are not going to do significant time. I have very little faith in the possibility of rehabilitating sex offenders. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/35 "2012-07-23T19:07:55Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > By the way, what is sexual assault? Is it rape in all but name, or is it relatively minor stuff like pinching someone’s arse, or is a broad spectrum? Okay here’s how it breaks down in Kentucky. The victim was “physically helpless” (unconscious due to drinking) at the time the crime occurred. This makes the crime either First Degree Rape, First Degree Sexual Abuse, or First Degree Sodomy, depending on the act. Rape is “sexual intercourse” - putting sex organs or a foreign object into another person’s sex organs. Sodomy is “deviate sexual intercourse” - putting sex organs into another person’s mouth or anus or putting a foreign object into another person’s anus. Sexual Abuse is “sexual contact” - means touching another person’s sex organs or “other intimate parts”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/36 "2012-07-23T19:45:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Not responsible.” “Park and lock it.” -F. Scott Firesign ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/37 "2012-07-23T20:00:58Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > My concern here is that these kids are free to assault again, and aren’t even on any kind of sex offender registry. So what? A thousand kids are convicted of battery every day and never appear on an offender registry. Why should these kids be any different? ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/38 "2012-07-23T20:50:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So what? A thousand kids are convicted of battery every day and never appear on an offender registry. Why should these kids be any different? I believe, all other things being equal, that sexual assault has a higher rate of recidivism than regular assault. But that’s beside the point. This gag order, or whatever, goes beyond regular sealed-record policies for juveniles. Whether you agree with that or not, people are not going to want to live next door to rapists without actually knowing about it. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/39 "2012-07-23T21:00:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Okay here’s how it breaks down in Kentucky. > > The victim was “physically helpless” (unconscious due to drinking) at the time the crime occurred. This makes the crime either First Degree Rape, First Degree Sexual Abuse, or First Degree Sodomy, depending on the act. > > Rape is “sexual intercourse” - putting sex organs or a foreign object into another person’s sex organs. > Sodomy is “deviate sexual intercourse” - putting sex organs into another person’s mouth or anus or putting a foreign object into another person’s anus. > Sexual Abuse is “sexual contact” - means touching another person’s sex organs or “other intimate parts”. So these are rapist scum by any other name, then? Edit: I guess there are still “less bad” interpretations. Are we talking penetration here or are we talking something like lifting her top up and drawing smiley faces on her breats? I don’t understand, especially given the harshness of the US justice system, why are they not being put in prison for years? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121/40 "2012-07-23T21:03:33Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > So these are rapist scum by any other name, then? Around here they say they are charging a guy with buggery or sodomy and I get all outraged…just to read it is actually a case of child rape(not in the least ambiguous because it includes kidnapping by force) um yea there is nothing else to charge someone with but that?! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-names-of-attackers-confidential-you-talk-about-it-anyway-free-speech-or-contempt/629121.md?page=3)