# Judge orders couple not to have children. OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-couple-not-to-have-children-ok/244371 "2004-05-10T00:28:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saturnine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Saturnine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saturnine)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-couple-not-to-have-children-ok/244371/21 "2004-05-14T02:02:31Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Well, what do you think of this approach? (Caveat: Case mainly theoretical) > > A judge could sentence a guy to 5 years in prison for his chronic nonpayment of support. But he tells the guy that the sentence will be suspended, IF the guy gets a vasectomy. > > Perfectly legitimate prison sentence, within sentencing guidelines. An alternative to prison that the convictee can choose, but does not have to. Others are being sent to prison regularly for the same crime, without being given this particular option. > > Fair? Constitutional? I’m pretty sure there are states that have this option. I read it in an article discussing this particular case, but it was in print and I can’t find it online for whatever reason. Anyhow, IIRC, they had regulations for offering it. The person had to have at least $10, 000 in unpaid child support and have a certain number of children with a certain number of different women (3 might’ve been the operative number, I’ll keep searching around for the cite.) The people in question were given the option of jail time or a vasectomy (after it was done they had to come back to court with a doctor’s note verifying the procedure had been performed). Most of the men chose vasectomies actually. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-couple-not-to-have-children-ok/244371/22 "2004-05-14T06:05:22Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Well, that’s not really true already. Doctors can’t give any treatment they want. > > Coercion? Depends on your definition. Hubby was once told that if he didn’t have triple bypass surgery immediately, he was going to drop dead. It was a lie. Is that coercion? Were they really lying, or was it a mistake? I don’t see what someone would have to gain from lying about that. Coercion would be a judge saying to you; “Undergo this medical procedure or else pay x amount of money/go to jail/have your right to do x taken away.” The subtlety of my post, which is just a reference to _Roe V. Wade_, must have gotten lost. Let me spell it out: **Medical treatment is a personal matter. It should never fall to a court to make medical decisions for a legally competent adult.** ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-couple-not-to-have-children-ok/244371/23 "2004-05-14T06:30:01Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Coercion would be a judge saying to you; “Undergo this medical procedure or else pay x amount of money/go to jail/have your right to do x taken away.” But “the right to do X” is _supposed_ to be taken away. That’s the _expected_ outcome. The judge is offering a compromise that would make both sides happy. The guilty party does not have to accept. I just fail to see how “Undergo this medical procedure or go to jail” is any worse than simply “Go to jail.” It would seem that option A is _less_ cruel. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-couple-not-to-have-children-ok/244371/24 "2004-05-14T11:15:37Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Were they really lying, or was it a mistake? I don’t see what someone would have to gain from lying about that. > > Coercion would be a judge saying to you; “Undergo this medical procedure or else pay x amount of money/go to jail/have your right to do x taken away.” In that case, all laws are coercive. They pretty much all say " Do [or don’t do) this or else go to jail/pay x amount of money/ lose your right to do x." > [@](#): > > The subtlety of my post, which is just a reference to _Roe V. Wade_, must have gotten lost. Let me spell it out: **Medical treatment is a personal matter. It should never fall to a court to make medical decisions for a legally competent adult.** The court is not making the medical decision. The court is allowing the person to make the medical decision in order to gain a benefit. If he chooses not to have the vasectomy, he is in the same position as if he wasn’t offered the choice. The court most likely doesn’t care which option he picks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-couple-not-to-have-children-ok/244371.md?page=1)