# Judge orders mother to learn English or else!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 18, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649 "2005-02-18T03:10:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/1 "2005-02-18T03:10:24Z")
[http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0502170279feb17,1,2576536.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0502170279feb17,1,2576536.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true)
We were talking about this one at school today. Tennessee sure does produce some fine judges!
PS The best part is at the very end of the article, when the judge explains that if he lived in Mexico, he would learn to speak Hispanic. :wally
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/2 "2005-02-18T03:14:15Z")
So you think people who want to be Americans shouldn’t have to learn English?
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/3 "2005-02-18T03:17:30Z")
> [@Reeder](#):
>
> So you think people who want to be Americans shouldn’t have to learn English?
I don’t see the relevance. The judge is not ruling on matters of citizenship.
Did you read the article, or did you not want to register?
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/4 "2005-02-18T03:34:25Z")
Ok, granted the guy might be an idiot.
But she was neglecting her child because she cannot speak English in an English-speaking area.
One option would be to ensure that the entire county goes bilingual. Another would be to ensure the mother speaks English. I don’t see how the latter is all that evil.
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/5 "2005-02-18T03:40:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> I don’t see the relevance. The judge is not ruling on matters of citizenship.
> Did you read the article, or did you not want to register?
Forgive me for being a bigot.
But I happen to believe that if you want to live and thrive in America, citizen or not…you should speak english.
You don’t agree?
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### Author:  [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/6 "2005-02-18T03:48:59Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#):
>
> [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0502170279feb17,1,2576536.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0502170279feb17,1,2576536.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true)
>
> We were talking about this one at school today. Tennessee sure does produce some fine judges!
>
> PS The best part is at the very end of the article, when the judge explains that if he lived in Mexico, he would learn to speak Hispanic. :wally
Well, to be fair, it was not the judge who said that. It was “Bob Bright, 61, an insurance agent.”
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/7 "2005-02-18T03:57:09Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#):
>
> Well, to be fair, it was not the judge who said that. It was “Bob Bright, 61, an insurance agent.”
I found it very surprising that the article included that “look how stoopid Tennesseeans are” line.
Then I saw it’s from the L.A. _Times_.
Now I’m just amused.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/8 "2005-02-18T04:01:06Z")
> [@Reeder](#):
>
> Forgive me for being a bigot.
>
> But I happen to believe that if you want to live and thrive in America, citizen or not…you should speak english.
>
> You don’t agree?
If you want to _thrive_, it would be helpful. But as a requirement to live in America? Absolutely not.
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/9 "2005-02-18T04:04:35Z")
> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> If you want to _thrive_, it would be helpful. But as a requirement to live in America? Absolutely not.
Just where would you build your tower of bable?
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### Author:  [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/10 "2005-02-18T04:05:19Z")
The point is, the judge was threatening to take away the woman’s kids if she didn’t learn English. Since when is knowing English a prerequisite for being a good mother?
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/11 "2005-02-18T04:06:51Z")
When her lack of English interferes with her being able to appropriately care for her children.
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/12 "2005-02-18T04:09:25Z")
No, I don’t want to register. But I would like to know what the article is about. Just a quick summary, perhaps? Why was the woman brought before a judge? Where in Tennessee did this happen? What other recent court decisions in Tennessee were you referring to in your OP?
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/13 "2005-02-18T04:13:15Z")
Try this one, **Zoe** :
> **[Learn English, Judge Tells Moms](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-feb-14-na-english14-story.html)**
>
> A Tennessee jurist who has ordered mothers to take language lessons wins the praise of some locals but raises alarm among rights advocates.
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/14 "2005-02-18T04:16:21Z")
> [@Reeder](#):
>
> Just where would you build your tower of bable?
Switzerland recognizes four official languages. Other European (and for that matter, Asian and African) nations have multiple languages/dialects, which doesn’t prevent people from living and even thriving.
An English-speaking majority in this country is a 20th Century innovation. (Indeed, after the Louisiana Purchase, there may have been as many or more French speakers than English.)
The notion that you _must_ speak English to live in this country is ignorant and bigoted. You may need to, in order to attend University or hold a job with a major corporation, and it would behove any parent to encourage their children to learn the standard means of communication, but Americans would be better off (or at least better able to relate to the rest of the world) if we learned to speak a language in addition to English.
Stranger
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/15 "2005-02-18T04:27:40Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#):
>
> Switzerland recognizes four official languages. Other European (and for that matter, Asian and African) nations have multiple languages/dialects, which doesn’t prevent people from living and even thriving.
And Switzerland has 7.2 million people, in a small area surrounded by Italy, Austria, and France. Its history of neutrality has long required it to maintain itself as a linguistic melting pot. And the fourth official language, Romansch, was indigenous and is spoken by 40,000 people.
So, I’m not thinking there are all that many parallels with Switzerland.
> [@](#):
>
> An English-speaking majority in this country is a 20th Century innovation. (Indeed, after the Louisiana Purchase, there may have been as many or more French speakers than English.)
Cites for both of those statements, please.
> [@](#):
>
> The notion that you _must_ speak English to live in this country is ignorant and bigoted.
Possibly. However, it’s completely irrelevant to this issue. No one is talking about deportation.
If you chose to move to Armenia, would you expect that the Armenian government translate everything into English for you? Would you try to raise a child in a country where you could not speak the language (and therefore didn’t know the laws)?
> [@](#):
>
> You may need to, in order to attend University or hold a job with a major corporation, and it would behove any parent to encourage their children to learn the standard means of communication, but Americans would be better off (or at least better able to relate to the rest of the world) if we learned to speak a language in addition to English.
Well, no shit. But you ended up in a very different place than you started from. Yes, it would be great if we all learned another language.
Which one?
And how much are you willing to pay to ensure that no one has to learn English in order to do business?
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/16 "2005-02-18T04:29:25Z")
Thanks, **Andros** , but I would have to register there too. I found an article about it on a Spanish website.
The same blasted judge made a similar order to another woman _and_ ordered her to use birth cotrol!
Check [this](http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=33413&rubrik1=Regional&rubrik2=United+States&rubrik3=Nebraska&sort=1&start=1) link about what happened to a father in Nebraska who wanted to teach his child Spanish!
> [@](#):
>
> **Stranger** : The notion that you must speak English to live in this country is ignorant and bigoted.
It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that it is also unConstitutional to require it.
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/17 "2005-02-18T04:35:59Z")
Who decides what language is spoken? The majority? A judge? A legislature? The natural changes that occur with shifting populations?
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/18 "2005-02-18T04:37:11Z")
The woman was brought in by the local DCS because she had failed to keep up with postnatal care. It was judged that she had done so because she did not know enough English to communicate with the necessary personnel. The judge ordered her to learn basic English, and has apparently ordered several other non-English-speakers to learn English, or face losing their children.
Reeder, I can’t believe I’m hearing this from you.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/19 "2005-02-18T04:42:33Z")
> [@Reeder](#):
>
> Just where would you build your tower of bable?
_Babel._
Do you think a large multi-lingual society is untenable?
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### Author:  [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-orders-mother-to-learn-english-or-else/290649/20 "2005-02-18T04:50:48Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#):
>
> The notion that you _must_ speak English to live in this country is ignorant and bigoted.
What’s ignorant, bigoted and incredibly nervy is to voluntarily move to another country and expect the majority of people in that country to learn _your_ native language.
The woman in the article is described as someone with probably at best a sixth grade education. So she’s eighteen, has a toddler who hasn’t been immunized, has no high school diploma and doesn’t speak the common language. That’s hardly a prescription for success here.
I hope she leaves on her own.
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