# Judge overturns Oregon Governor's Covid-19 restrictions **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 19, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083 "2020-05-19T03:31:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/81 "2020-05-22T14:01:29Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > \>Originally Posted by sps49sd > \>Do you know how many deaths due to COVID-19 Oregon has suffered? > > 4 today. 7 on their worst day. > > How may any of us know anything, when the Universe is divided between the word within our head and the world outside our head? > Those numbers com from [here](https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/oregon) and [here](https://www.google.com/search?q=oregon+deaths+covid&rlz=1C1GCEV_enUS854US854&oq=oregon+deaths+covid&aqs=chrome..69i57.7944j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active). > It’s really easy to find information like this. Do I know, absolutely, “this”? No. But unless and until I get better information, sources like I provided will have to do. > > Note: The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at UW site gave actual numbers yesterday, not 'per 100,000, but those capable of math will see the numbers are the same. You cannot know the real numbers unless the dead are tested for the virus after the fact. What you have are the numbers of people that have died after already being diagnosed with the virus. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/82 "2020-05-22T14:28:53Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Y’know this is an interesting side-debate but I don’t think the constitutionality or non constitutionality of a statute is dependent upon whether it is scientifically “right” to carry it out. Those Schooled in the Law may correct me on that. I was having to be same thought. Nor do the religious beliefs or motivations of the plaintiffs undercut the merits of their legal argument. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/83 "2020-05-22T14:30:57Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Well, so just support the position that gives a Governor the power to flout the Constitution because you agree with that position for today. Just don’t complain when in 2045 and Donald Trump IV is governor and he uses the power set by the precedent you argue. Precisely. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/84 "2020-05-22T14:31:59Z")
Why on earth is the quorum set so high? That gives control of the Legislature to the minority. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/85 "2020-05-22T14:41:23Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Why on earth is the quorum set so high? That gives control of the Legislature to the minority. Yes, it gives some power to the minority. At some point they are forced to work through their differences so it’s limited by time. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/86 "2020-05-22T14:52:52Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Why on earth is the quorum set so high? That gives control of the Legislature to the minority. It might have worked at one time. Empowering a political minority is not inherently bad. It’s bad when the political minority uses its minority to obstruct the legislature for no reason other than to exercise its power to disrupt, which is what a political party does when it appeals to fewer and fewer people - it becomes less democratic in spirit, and it relies more on abusing what remaining powers it does have to corrode the will of the majority. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/87 "2020-05-22T15:06:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, it gives some power to the minority. At some point they are forced to work through their differences so it’s limited by time. what forces them to work through their differences? what is the time limit? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/88 "2020-05-22T17:15:58Z")
I’m a little surprised at the course of the debate here. Given our current president, and the one we had before Obama, liberals should be particularly sensitive to this. In general, it is a Bad Idea to allow a chief executive to wield indefinite emergency powers. If that means the response to a public health emergency is not what it ought to be, then the constitution and relevant legislation should be amended. But no one from any party should be allowed to rule by fiat, even if their motives are pure. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/89 "2020-05-22T20:44:11Z")
I agree. However, I find it very odd that there is an emergency powers statute on the books that is more expansive than the constitutional provision and seems to be the source of the ambiguity. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/90 "2020-05-23T21:53:56Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Why on earth is the quorum set so high? That gives control of the Legislature to the minority. Not when the chair has the authority to compel the attendance of absent members. I am just guessing, but a higher quorum number is simply protective of the entire house. Suppose a 51-49 Republican majority and the majority proposes a radical right wing bill that only gets 28 GOP votes and no Dem votes. Under a majority quorum, you could call a quick session, round up the Republicans, and pass the radical bill on a 28-23 vote, whereas if you had to have more members you couldn’t do this. I also don’t see anything wrong with the idea that the legislators have a job to do and that they should all be there for every session unless excused for illness or personal emergency. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/91 "2020-05-23T21:57:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I agree. However, I find it very odd that there is an emergency powers statute on the books that is more expansive than the constitutional provision and seems to be the source of the ambiguity. What is your position on the ambiguity? I’m not familiar with Oregon case law, but it seems that the Constitution has already set out the balance of power between the executive and legislative and the legislature cannot simply cede its own power by statute. I don’t see how this would be any different (under the US Constitution) than a law requiring a unanimous vote to overturn a veto or allowing the President to ratify a treaty without approval of the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/92 "2020-05-23T22:44:50Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What is your position on the ambiguity? I’m not familiar with Oregon case law, but it seems that the Constitution has already set out the balance of power between the executive and legislative and the legislature cannot simply cede its own power by statute. > > I don’t see how this would be any different (under the US Constitution) than a law requiring a unanimous vote to overturn a veto or allowing the President to ratify a treaty without approval of the Senate. Don’t know enough to comment, beyond what I said; would be a question of Washington constitutional law. If that’s the basis for the current disagreement between the Governor and the Legislature, it seems odd that the earlier emergency statute was never repealed when the constitutional amendment went through. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/93 "2020-05-23T23:17:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You cannot know the real numbers unless the dead are tested for the virus after the fact. What you have are the numbers of people that have died after already being diagnosed with the virus. So what is your point? Mine is that the governor of Oregon is abusing her power for a non- crisis situation, and those low numbers underscore the degree of her overreach. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/94 "2020-05-23T23:27:52Z")
The governor of Oregon is making reasoned and informed decisions, which has kept all of us safer. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/95 "2020-05-23T23:40:16Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Well, so just support the position that gives a Governor the power to flout the Constitution because you agree with that position for today. Just don’t complain when in 2045 and Donald Trump IV is governor and he uses the power set by the precedent you argue. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Precisely. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I was having to be same thought. Nor do the religious beliefs or motivations of the plaintiffs undercut the merits of their legal argument. Do either of you actually read what I write before you decide what I said? I said twice, in 2 separate posts, that I am _not confident_ that Governor Brown’s arguments will prevail. The fact that the persons bringing the legal action are religious has no bearing, and I have not said otherwise. I would be equally disturbed if a small, noisy group of indoor tap dancing enthusiasts were asserting the view that their rights to assemble and tap dance exceeded in importance the safety and welfare of citizens during a pandemic emergency. I see no 30-day restriction over governors in New York or California, so obviously not everyone in the country sees a 30-day limitation on emergency governors’ powers as a necessary bar to abject tyranny. Obviously the flaw exists in how high the numbers are for a quorum. But as **asahi** points out, Republicans in the Oregon senate are not looking for consensus, only disruption. And this in the midst of a pandemic that is with us now, today, not whenever the state legislature is next set to meet. I do think it is inappropriate that a circuit court judge accepted jurisdiction over and heard the case of one of his Facebook buddies. I was always taught that even the appearance of impropriety should be avoided. Seems a joke these days. If there is an effort here to have an honest discussion about the authority of a state governor to protect the welfare of his/her citizens in the midst of a crisis that is clearly going to exceed an arbitrary 30-day limit over the perceived rights of a vocal minority seeking to supersede those concerns, it’s hard to tell with the way this discussion has gone. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/96 "2020-05-24T00:38:23Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Not when the chair has the authority to compel the attendance of absent members. [Oregon GOP senator on governor sending police: ‘Send bachelors and come heavily armed’](https://kval.com/news/local/oregon-senator-on-governor-sending-police-send-bachelors-and-come-heavily-armed) > [@](#): > > “Send bachelors and come heavily armed,” Sen. Brian Boquist, a Republican from Dallas, said late Wednesday as the prospect of a walkout loomed. “I’m not going to be a political prisoner in the state of Oregon. It’s just that simple.” ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/97 "2020-05-24T00:59:48Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > [Oregon GOP senator on governor sending police: ‘Send bachelors and come heavily armed’](https://kval.com/news/local/oregon-senator-on-governor-sending-police-send-bachelors-and-come-heavily-armed) I like this part: > [@](#): > > The tactic is rare, but it has been used throughout history, sometimes creating comical scenes. Abraham Lincoln once leapt out of a window in an attempt to deny a quorum when he was a lawmaker in Illinois. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/98 "2020-05-24T01:05:45Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > \>Originally Posted by sps49sd > > \>Do you know how many deaths due to COVID-19 Oregon has suffered? > > 4 today. 7 on their worst day. > > How may any of us know anything, when the Universe is divided between the word within our head and the world outside our head? > > Those numbers com from [here](https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/oregon) and [here](https://www.google.com/search?q=oregon+deaths+covid&rlz=1C1GCEV_enUS854US854&oq=oregon+deaths+covid&aqs=chrome..69i57.7944j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&safe=active). > > It’s really easy to find information like this. Do I know, absolutely, “this”? No. But unless and until I get better information, sources like I provided will have to do. > > Note: The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at UW site gave actual numbers yesterday, not 'per 100,000, but those capable of math will see the numbers are the same. You can shut down before a lot of people die, or after a lot of people die. Pretty hard to find that sweet spot of just enough dead people to satisfy everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/99 "2020-05-24T03:04:02Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > So what is your point? > Mine is that the governor of Oregon is abusing her power for a non- crisis situation, and those low numbers underscore the degree of her overreach. My point? “Dead Right” is not something you want on a tombstone. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083/100 "2020-05-24T03:31:27Z")
Here’s from an [Oregon paper](https://www.registerguard.com/news/20200523/judge-told-vacate-or-explain-order-nixing-virus-restrictions?fbclid=IwAR1tsFGpJJXoFUXYneso6dmXwmM6PWy7zh9VvqgV1V0SKO9kdGO2CxdxNRE) today, in case it’s useful: > [@](#): > > The ruling by the county judge in Oregon turned on the legal mechanism Brown used to issue her orders. The plaintiffs allege — and the judge agreed — that they were issued under a statute pertaining to public health emergencies, not an older provision that addresses natural disasters such as storms, earthquakes or floods. > > The public health statute contains the 28-day time limit, while the other does not contain a time limit. > > Brown maintained in court papers that the statue on public health emergencies was intended by the Legislature to supplement, and not supersede, the emergency powers granted her for natural disasters — including disease — and therefore the time limit doesn’t apply. > > […] > > Brown extended the order another 60 days until July 6. All but one Oregon county, however, has since received the state’s approval to begin loosening the coronavirus restrictions. In those counties, restaurants can provide dine-in service with 6 feet (2 meters) of social distancing and salons, gyms and other nonessential businesses can also reopen with strict safety precautions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-overturns-oregon-governors-covid-19-restrictions/854083.md?page=6)