# Judge prevents at-will hospital employees from quitting and working new jobs \[resolved: they may quit/start new jobs\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223 "2022-01-22T13:57:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/261 "2022-01-24T21:14:58Z")
according to reporter Madeline heim who is there, the injunction has been lifted and they can start at ascension tomorrow. no idea if it’s true or not but I hope so ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/262 "2022-01-24T21:38:41Z")
> **[Judge lifts restraining order against Ascension in dispute with ThedaCare...](https://fox11online.com/news/local/thedacare-vs-ascension-returns-to-court-after-temporary-restraining-order-granted)** > > APPLETON (WLUK) – A judge ended a temporary restraining order Monday in a workforce dispute between two hospital systems. Caption: Outagamie County Judge Mark McGinnis ends a temporary restraining order he put in place which requires Ascension... An update. TRO lifted. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/263 "2022-01-24T21:48:02Z")
This is the latest story I can find. > **[UPDATE: ThedaCare drops lawsuit against Ascension](https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/thedacare-files-lawsuit-to-keep-employees-from-leaving-for-ascension/)** > > FRIDAY 1/28/2022 5:32 p.m. (WFRV) – Thedacare has dropped its lawsuit against Ascension Wisconsin, according to a new statement from ThedaCare President and CEO, Imran A. Andrabi. According t… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/264 "2022-01-24T21:51:55Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/265 "2022-01-24T21:54:49Z")
As much as I felt that the judge was justified in issuing the temporary, I am equally happy to see that the injunction was lifted. In all my googling on this, the best I can see is a claim thar Ascension went in and made better offers to key staff at ThedaCare, who didn’t match the terms. That’s certainly not tortious interference. However, that determination was made after testimony was presented in live court and the judge got to consider all sides. This is why what the judge did in stopping this on Friday is fair and equitable, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/266 "2022-01-24T22:32:23Z")
I’m glad to hear the TRO has been lifted (because I still think it never should have been put in place) but now I wanna know who pays the workers for today, then? ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/267 "2022-01-24T22:44:01Z")
I’m very pleased that the judge has lifted the order, and I acknowledge that @UltraVires was correct that it did only last for the weekend. It remains to be seen if the employees receive any compensation for being put through the wringer. [Ascencion’s brief has been made available by WPR](https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/ascensionbriefjan24.pdf) and - bearing in mind of course that this is only their side of the story - if the allegations are true then this makes things look even worse for ThedaCare. > By December 21, the four radiology technologists on the IRC Team each had received offers to work for Ascension and decided to give ThedaCare the opportunity to retain them. That day, they provided the details of their offers to ThedaCare management and requested a counteroffer. They received no response until December 28, when they were told by Interim Director of Cardiovascular Service Line Ron Schumaker that ThedaCare would not be making any counteroffer. As he put it, the short term expense of retaining the radiology technologists was not worth the long term expense, because if ThedaCare paid to keep these employees, it would have to offer raises to everyone. > > Mr. Schumaker was clear that this message came from senior management at ThedaCare, whom he had apprised of the problem posed by all four technologists’ potential resignation. Mr. Shumaker told the technologists that any coverage issues were not their concern, that he had raised the issue with senior management, and he had to trust that management had a plan in light of their decision to not retain the technologists. I guess we now know what management’s plan to deal with the coverage issues was. Six of the seven employees actually resigned effective January 14: > For the most part, none of the seven have worked since January 14, either. Ms. Young provided “on call” coverage on January 19 and 20, but there were no calls. Andrew Kohler took one shift on January 20—the day this lawsuit was filed—as a courtesy, but will not be doing that again. Ms. Baltus’ resignation was effective January 21, and that was her last shift worked. And Ms. Young offered to provide coverage this weekend, but ThedaCare told her she was not needed. She will not be repeating that offer, either. So the supposed life-threatening emergency situation had already existed for a week before the TRO was issued, and yet: > As noted, the IRC Team’s last official day of work was January 14. In the ten days since, has trauma care in the Fox Valley gone off the rails? Not in the least. As of this filing, ThedaCare has not diverted a single trauma patient from the Neenah facility—even to Green Bay. To the contrary, as recently as January 20, ThedaCare’s stroke coordinator informed Ascension’s stroke coordinator that it did not intend to divert patients elsewhere. ThedaCare’s case starts to look very thin. If what is stated in this brief proves to be true, I hope that ThedaCare and its lawyers will be sanctioned for misleading the court in their application for the TRO. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/268 "2022-01-24T22:46:24Z")
“Theda” is an anagram of “death” [Just sayin’ …] ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/269 "2022-01-24T23:28:26Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > ThedaCare’s case starts to look very thin. If what is stated in this brief proves to be true, I hope that ThedaCare and its lawyers will be sanctioned for misleading the court in their application for the TRO. Now we agree on something. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/270 "2022-01-24T23:33:00Z")
I’ve found that “care” in the name of a medical establishment is always a harbinger of trouble. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/271 "2022-01-25T00:01:25Z")
> [@susan](#): > > I’ve found that “care” in the name of a medical establishment is always a harbinger of trouble. The US healthcare equivalent of the cold war era observation that having “people’s” or “democratic” in a country’s name meant it was run by an autocracy who didn’t give a crap about the people? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/272 "2022-01-25T00:32:58Z")
Did you miss the part where the Thedacare CEO prefers to be addressed as “Beloved Leader?” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/273 "2022-01-25T01:03:47Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > “Theda” is an anagram of “death” > > [Just sayin’ …] Just in case anyone cares where the name actually came from: Until ~2016, it was named Theda Clark Medical Center (and Theda Clark Hospital before that). It was named after Theda Clark, the daughter of Charles Clark (philanthropist and co-founder of paper manufacturer Kimberly-Clark); Theda had died at home while giving birth in 1903, which led her family to donate money to build a hospital for the area in her name. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/274 "2022-01-25T01:06:50Z")
An honorable past to be sure but every time I read the name I think theta radiation which is deadly. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/275 "2022-01-25T01:31:40Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > [Ascencion’s brief has been made available by WPR](https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/ascensionbriefjan24.pdf) Sometimes I wish I was a lawyer because there’s maybe a chance I could get paid to make snarky comments like this: > [@](#): > > “Your failure to prepare is not my personal emergency.” This wry observation—a favorite > of parents, teachers, coaches, and perhaps a few judges—concisely captures the core concept of personal responsibility most of us learned in childhood: don’t blame others for your own mistakes. > > Evidently that concept is lost on ThedaCare. With this frantic, last-minute lawsuit, > ThedaCare attempts to convert its own poor management into a disruptive personal emergency for everyone—anyone—but itself: Ascension, this Court, and (worst of all)seven essential health care workers who, until Friday, believed they were starting new jobs on Monday morning. > > … > > In that sense, it seems ThedaCare missed a second lesson ofchildhood: the story of the boy > who cried wolf. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/276 "2022-01-25T01:58:53Z")
The ex-employees will begin work at their new jobs on Tuesday. > **[ThedaCare loses court fight to keep health care staff who resigned](https://www.wpr.org/thedacare-loses-court-fight-keep-health-care-staff-who-resigned)** > > A hospital in northeastern Wisconsin has lost a court battle to keep health care staff who want to work elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/277 "2022-01-25T02:06:16Z")
That seems like a not-horrible outcome. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/278 "2022-01-25T04:39:43Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > [Ascencion’s brief has been made available by WPR](https://www.wpr.org/sites/default/files/ascensionbriefjan24.pdf) […] > > > By December 21, the four radiology technologists on the IRC Team each had received offers to work for Ascension and decided to give ThedaCare the opportunity to retain them. That day, they provided the details of their offers to ThedaCare management and requested a counteroffer. They received no response until December 28, when they were told by Interim Director of Cardiovascular Service Line Ron Schumaker that ThedaCare would not be making any counteroffer. As he put it, **the short term expense of retaining the radiology technologists was not worth the long term expense, because if ThedaCare paid to keep these employees, it would have to offer raises to everyone.** > > Mr. Schumaker was clear that this message came from senior management at ThedaCare, whom he had apprised of the problem (bolding mine) Ah, the labor market in your sector having become a _seller’s_ market is quite the thing, isn’t it, Mr. Senior Management? _What is this, a world where my staff can choose to leave for someone who offers a better deal if I don’t match it, and it’s **my** problem to replace them?? Inconceivable!! And how dare a competitor compete!_ ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/279 "2022-01-25T10:02:16Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > “Theda” is an anagram of “death” > > [Just sayin’ …] And Care is an anagram of “race”. Death Race … Stephen King or Quentin Tarantino? ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/280 "2022-01-25T11:40:19Z")
> [@naita](#): > > And Care is an anagram of “race”. Death Race … Stephen King or Quentin Tarantino? roger corman 😁 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223.md?page=15)