# Judge prevents at-will hospital employees from quitting and working new jobs \[resolved: they may quit/start new jobs\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223 "2022-01-22T13:57:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/403 "2022-02-14T13:18:48Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So, the judge takes away your freedom of religion. You may not worship the god you normally do, but just for a few days. No biggie. I could see such a case – “You’re enjoined from from conducting services at the new temple in the neighborhood until we clarify what your neighbors are claiming about goats and bonfires.” Or “your honor, my sacraments cannot be performed via Zoom, it violates my freedom of religion to have to limit my congregation to one quarter capacity and require masks.” “OK, let’s have a hearing on it next Tuesday, meanwhile, you have to comply.” Just because the right answer seems bloody obvious to us doesn’t mean it was some atrocity to take two business days to make a ruling. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/404 "2022-02-14T13:20:19Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If you walk into a judge’s office with a complaint, signed under the pains and penalties of false swearing, that people will DIE if the judge doesn’t do what you want right NOW, should the judge just ignore you? I think one single weekend is a reasonable reaction to that situation and when he heard the evidence on Monday ThedaCare had already made the decision to not match the offer from Ascension. They had ample warning of what was coming. This was strictly between the two companies. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/405 "2022-02-14T13:25:59Z")
Yes, and the judge saw that on Monday. Why do I think if the judge didn’t enter the TRO and some old lady died of a stroke over that weekend that there would be posters calling the judge a corporate whore for not granting relief? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/406 "2022-02-14T13:28:10Z")
What did he see Monday that wasn’t visible the previous Friday? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/407 "2022-02-14T13:29:30Z")
Full presentation of the evidence. “I don’t like this complaint, but bring witnesses on Monday.” ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/408 "2022-02-14T13:30:56Z")
I’m sure there would have been - but that doesn’t mean they would be right or that that’s how decisions should be made , because I guarantee that if the old lady died of a stroke on Monday morning with the restraining order in place , _someone_ would have said she wouldn’t have died if only the employees had been working at Ascension. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/409 "2022-02-14T13:34:11Z")
Right, so there is all that out there and you are a judge on Friday afternoon. You make a call and get busted for it either way. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/410 "2022-02-14T13:37:20Z")
As much as I don’t think so, judges are human beings. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/411 "2022-02-14T13:37:35Z")
Did you read the article at the beginning of the thread? ThedaCare knew more than a month in advance and had told the employees they wouldn’t match the offer. What part of “at-will” makes it OK for an employer to try to force employees to stay due to the employer’s inaction? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/412 "2022-02-14T14:01:30Z")
There’s a big difference between saying " Judges are human beings and make mistakes as all humans do" and saying the judge was correct and reasonable to issue the restraining order. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/413 "2022-02-14T14:27:59Z")
Now does everyone see the problem with all the Republican judges that get appointed? What happens if the next time something like this comes up and the judge opines that corporate interests are more important than individual interests? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/414 "2022-02-14T14:32:40Z")
One thing Ultravries keeps avoiding is: what is the duty of care that private citizens owe to potential patients that trumps their right to change jobs? What evidence did ThedaCare present that Friday that a judge would even consider preventing people from changing jobs? “Your Honor, they poached our employees. True they were not under contract and we’ve known about this for over a month and we refused to meet their fair market value but you should really stop them exercising their rights.” I have a lot of problems with a judge taking away people’s rights (even de minimis) just to punt the case that they weren’t even a party to until later. Would UV be OK if the First Baptist Church didn’t like thier congregation going to the Second Baptist Church so while First was suing Second a judge told people they couldn’t worship where they wanted? And correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t one element of issuing a TRO that ThedaCare was likely to succeed in their suit? If this was the solution on Friday, I’m not wholly convinced the judge would have reversed himself without the public outcry. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/415 "2022-02-14T14:33:47Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Now does everyone see the problem with all the Republican judges that get appointed? Pretty sure this Judge was elected. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/416 "2022-02-14T16:02:08Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Full presentation of the evidence. “I don’t like this complaint, but bring witnesses on Monday.” The better course would have been “I don’t like this complaint and I’m not signing anything. If you really have a case, bring me evidence on Monday and I’ll consider it.” Thus they have to cover the weekend “crisis” (after a month of warning) but get a _very_ expedited hearing due to the urgent nature of their allegations, ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/417 "2022-02-14T17:21:40Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > As much as I don’t think so, judges are human beings. 🙂 In this case an evil human being. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/418 "2022-02-14T17:59:04Z")
@UltraVires Out of curiosity, how long do you think would be too long? A week? A month? 90 days? This isn’t a “gotcha”, I’m just wondering where you would draw the line since it feels like the remaining debate has become: “One day is too much” vs “One day is reasonable”. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2022, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/419 "2022-02-14T23:54:53Z")
Each case is judged on its own facts. Yes, if it was a week or a month, then I would be grabbing the pitchforks for your side. But it was one single weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/420 "2022-02-15T00:06:26Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > What part of “at-will” makes it OK for an employer to try to force employees to stay due to the employer’s inaction? It’s not. The judge didn’t force them to continue work at their old employer. That would be a violation of the Thirteenth Amendment. He stopped their new employer from hiring them. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/421 "2022-02-15T01:54:09Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > He stopped their new employer from hiring them. So violating their right to work. But only a day so fvck their rights. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/422 "2022-02-15T01:55:42Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So violating their right to work. Is that an actual right? 'Cause I was unemployed for three years, and nobody told me I had a right to a job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223.md?page=22)