# Judge prevents at-will hospital employees from quitting and working new jobs \[resolved: they may quit/start new jobs\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223 "2022-01-22T13:57:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/81 "2022-01-22T19:04:06Z")
The only proper role of public safety for some people is the protection of lives and private property [of rich people] ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/82 "2022-01-22T19:08:01Z")
As you might imagine, the health care professionals who hang out in the r/nursing subreddit have had a [LOT to say about this situation](https://old.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/s8tdki/shots_fired_our_ceo_is_out_for_blood/). That’s the thread about the original pissed off letter from the CEO, and [here’s how they’re responding](https://old.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/s9tidq/wi_nurses_who_gave_their_notice_are_prevented_via/) to the injunction. And my look on it is that the 13th Amendment ought to apply here but as per usual, the Constitution takes a back seat to corporate whims. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/83 "2022-01-22T19:09:40Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > The reason, they [CLAIM](https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/thedacare-files-lawsuit-to-keep-employees-from-leaving-for-ascension/amp/), is that they need more time to hire replacement staff. I’m not a lawyer, but I dealt with a lot of contract issues in my career. Unless there is an employer-employee contract that states that an employee can’t quit until there is a replacement, it falls under the heading of “tough shit” for the employer. The longest “notice” clause I’ve ever seen was two weeks, and employers rarely hold an employee to that. As mentioned above, if there is some sort of non-compete clause I could see where the company might have a case, but otherwise the employer’s problem does NOT mean that it is the employees’ emergency. But the bottom line is “at-will employment” means that an employer can terminate an employee at any time for any reason, except an illegal one, or for no reason without incurring legal liability. _Likewise, an employee is free to leave a job at any time for any or no reason with no adverse legal consequences._ I see a “sick-out” in the future. And yeah, this is what happens when we allow union-busting. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/84 "2022-01-22T19:10:51Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Why would anyone chose to work for them now? They’ve made it clear they won’t pay as much as their competitors, and they’ll literally go to court to stop you from switching jobs. The only people I could see taking a job with them are the ones who are so bad at their jobs that, even with the unprecedented demand for health workers, no one else will hire them. I’m imagining a rural hospital, which caters to the poor and downtrodden, and which attracts practitioners who take their role as helpers seriously (even if it means that their wealth has taken a hit), being dragged through the mud because an entire division decided to quit all at once and go to a private facility with better hours and more pay. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/85 "2022-01-22T19:30:17Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > And why can’t the employer be held responsible for simply refusing to pay the going rate for these employees? How is it the people with control of the money are never help responsible for how they use it? Do you know their financials? Do you know that they can afford to pay more? Just because they are in “control of the money” doesn’t mean that they have an infinite amount of it. Let’s say that ThedaCare shuts down, and Ascension is now the only stroke trauma center in town. They don’t take MediCare, and they only operate Monday to Friday 9-5. They also don’t take more advanced cases, as they used to transfer them to ThedaCare rather than deal with them themselves. The community suffers, a few employees make a couple extra bucks, and the employers at Ascension, and everyone in this thread seems to agree that anyone who signs a paycheck is an evil greedy bastard, are the only ones who really profit. > [@Horatius](#): > > They’ve made it clear they won’t pay as much as their competitors, and they’ll literally go to court to stop you from switching jobs. They’ve made it clear that they are unable to match what a competitor is currently offering to poach their employees. They’ve also gone to court to try to ensure that their patients continue to receive the care that they need to not die. > [@Horatius](#): > > The only people I could see taking a job with them are the ones who are so bad at their jobs that, even with the unprecedented demand for health workers, no one else will hire them. Or, once Ascension has staffed itself, and starts cutting hours and benefits, as all these evil employers tend to do, people will start to realize that the grass really isn’t all that much greener on this side. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Corporate people are more important than corporeal people. The hate towards employers shown in this thread is amusing, as it convenient when directed towards one, but completely ignored in the fawning over the other. Anyway, your statement is probably not true, as the reason for granting this injunction was because the judge felt that corporeal people were more important than a pissing contest between two corporations. I don’t see any evidence that this injunction was not put in place in order to protect lives, even if that comes at a cost to the profits of Ascension. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > And my look on it is that the 13th Amendment ought to apply here but as per usual, the Constitution takes a back seat to corporate whims. How would the 13th Amendment apply? They are not being forced to work. > [@Chefguy](#): > > it falls under the heading of “tough shit” for the employer. And tough shit to the patients who will no longer be receiving care. > [@Chefguy](#): > > Likewise, an employee is free to leave a job at any time for any or no reason with no adverse legal consequences They _are_ free to. > [@Moriarty](#): > > I’m imagining a rural hospital, which caters to the poor and downtrodden, and which attracts practitioners who take their role as helpers seriously (even if it means that their wealth has taken a hit), being dragged through the mud because an entire division decided to quit all at once and go to a private facility with better hours and more pay. That’s the impression that I got, and it saddens me that people in this thread so quickly jump to hatred of employers that they come to the defense of the private facility over the rural hospital that is being driven out of business by the wealthier corporation that can afford to come in and poach the employees. When the community no longer has an affordable health center, and instead has a profit taking center that caters to the well to do and leaves the rest either sick or bankrupt, they won’t even acknowledge that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth as they criticize the practices of the corporation they so recently were lauding. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/86 "2022-01-22T20:06:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And tough shit to the patients who will no longer be receiving care True enough, but if the company paid decent wages and benefits to their employees, the problem wouldn’t exist, so laying blame on the employees just doesn’t wash for me. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Or, once Ascension has staffed itself, and starts cutting hours and benefits, as all these evil employers tend to do, people will start to realize that the grass really isn’t all that much greener on this side. Perhaps. The perils of the free market system we live in. I was once poached from a decent job for twice the pay, then found myself job hunting six months later. I knew the risks and took them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/87 "2022-01-22T20:20:31Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > As I read it, the order is at the hospital level - the request is to order Ascension to partner with ThedaCare so that its new employees stay at ThedaCare for 90 days. I’m guessing this means that the employees would be getting paid their new rate, by their new employer, and they would not experience any personal financial harm. If that’s what the judge is going for, then it’s simple robbery of Ascension by ThedaCare. Ascension has done nothing wrong here, and yet, they’re being required to pay for work that ThedaCare, not them, is benefitting from? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > They’ve made it clear that they are unable to match what a competitor is currently offering to poach their employees. They’ve also gone to court to try to ensure that their patients continue to receive the care that they need to not die. If they can’t afford to pay their employees to do the work that they do, then there’s a problem somewhere. But the solution is not to force their employees to work for less pay than other employers are offering. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > The hate towards employers shown in this thread is amusing An employer is someone who’s willing to pay employees to do something. There’s only one of those in this discussion, and nobody but you is hating on them. And this injunction doesn’t protect any lives. It doesn’t do anything at all for ThedaCare patients, it imperils the livelihood of the employees, and it endangers the lives of Ascension patients. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/88 "2022-01-22T20:37:09Z")
All people are doing is looking at the situation. Only one side is trying to get the courts involved rather than pay their workers more. And not because of some claim they don’t have the money, either. They just declined to pay higher wages, but then sought to use the courts to prevent those employees from leaving, waiting right up until the point where they actually tried to leave rather than doing it as soon as they were notified. These people may not be legally required to keep working for the local hospital. But, from a practical standpoint, that is their only choice. You can’t just walk in and get a job somewhere. They either have to keep working at that hospital or no longer get paid. It doesn’t matter that they aren’t legally required to do so. It still has the same effect: they must work for the first hospital or not be employed. The saving grace is only that the final decision will be made quickly. That’s better than nothing. But I question the irreparable harm that would have happened if the judge had just waited until Monday to decide. And irreparable harm is supposed to be the reason you grand temporary injunctions or restraining orders. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/89 "2022-01-22T20:38:40Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Could there possibly be a non-compete clause? I know you said at-will, but that doesn’t mean there is no contract. Unless you’re a high level executive or someone with extremely specialized proprietary knowledge, a non-compete clause isn’t usually worth the paper its printed on in most states. In Wisconsin, non-competes are only enforceable if it’s necessary to protect the employer, reasonable in geographic scope, and reasonable in time. For this to be a valid ruling based on a non-compete clause, the original employer would have to demonstrate how the non-compete clause is necessary to protect them. And “protecting the employer” generally doesn’t have a very broad definition. If a truck driver for Coca-Cola jumps ship and goes to drive a truck for PepsiCo because they’re paying him $3.50 more an hour most courts are going to laugh at anyone who tried to enforce a non-compete agreement. > [@Moriarty](#): > > The crux of the underlying dispute seems to hinge on how these people were hired. The employees are saying that one person organically got a job, which led coworkers to also apply, whereas the aggrieved hospital is saying that their staff was poached. Which is a fairly common practice especially in health care. And there’s a lot of that going around. Prior to COVID, I was rarely contacted by headhunters looking to fill HR positions but these days I hear from them almost weekly. And many of them must be desperate because they’re contacting me about positions my LinkedIN profile doesn’t say I’m qualified for. > [@Horatius](#): > > What the employer is really asking the courts to do is protect them from the consequences of their own shortsightedness. Bingo. The employer made the decision that they weren’t going to offer a salary bump. That was a business decision and the court shouldn’t be in the business of protecting an employer from making a bad decision. > [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > So, it seems that ‘right to work’ was bad because you can’t always fire somebody who needs to be fired. > Now, ‘at will’ is bad because employees you need may actually want to be somewhere else. “Right to work” refers to states that allows workers to choice of whether or not they want to join the union. i.e. If you hire someone to work at a place that has a union you can’t require union membership as a condition of employment or continued employment in a right to work state. An “at will” state means that both the employer and employee are free to terminate the employment relationship at any time without legal consequences. (The employer can’t terminate employment if they do so based on membership in a protected class of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/90 "2022-01-22T20:43:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If that’s what the judge is going for, then it’s simple robbery of Ascension by ThedaCare. I feel like I’m a broken record, but the judge hasn’t “gone for” anything yet. A hearing where all sides are going to make their arguments is set for Monday. These people were supposed to start on Friday. The judge has only said, “there’s an allegation of substantial harm, so let’s not disrupt anything just yet.” > [@Chronos](#): > > Ascension has done nothing wrong here We don’t have the benefit of the complaint, but they are alleged to have done something wrong here. It explains why the new employees keep saying that they were not all recruited together by Ascension- clearly, the allegations track back to some claim that Ascension raided ThedaCare. Now, I don’t claim to know how that translates into a lawsuit (tortious interference with a business relationship, I guess), but there is some assertion of wrongdoing. > [@Chronos](#): > > And this injunction doesn’t protect any lives. It doesn’t do anything at all for ThedaCare patients Whether true or not, there is at least an assertion that it does protect patients. That’s the basis of the imminent harm justifying a temporary injunction followed by a hearing and a final ruling on the merits. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/91 "2022-01-22T20:54:24Z")
Well, I’ve worked at 24 hour hospitals that were not for profit and morale was rated higher than at this one. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/92 "2022-01-22T21:07:11Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Do you know their financials? Do you know that they can afford to pay more? > > Just because they are in “control of the money” doesn’t mean that they have an infinite amount of it. In 2020 their leadership team undertook a 40% pay cut. It was estimated to save ThedaCare 40 million dollars. The leadership team went from making a combined 100 million a year to 60 million and put out a press release about how great they are and the sacrifices they are making during covid. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/93 "2022-01-22T21:42:49Z")
If you read the article the judge is not and can not force them to keep working at their old jobs, just that they can’t start new jobs until replaced… which of course will be never. However the injunction was a short term one. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Tell that to the Chicago Teachers Union. > > Children are better off, and safer, in school rather than out. Is the fault with the Union or the government giving them crappy pay and benefits, etc? Since other teachers unions are not going out on strike everywhere (it does happen, but it is rare)my guess would be the fault lies with the government, not the Union. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > And my look on it is that the 13th Amendment ought to apply here but as per usual, the Constitution takes a back seat to corporate whims. Are you reading the thread? > [@Odesio](#): > > “Right to work” refers to states that allows workers to choice of whether or not they want to join the union. i.e. If you hire someone to work at a place that has a union you can’t require union membership as a condition of employment or continued employment in a right to work state Right to Work is basically Union Busting. The non-unions employees get all the benefits of collective bargaining, but do not have to pay the Union which gets them. If you look at a map of Right to Work states and overlay that with Red states, the match up is close. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/94 "2022-01-22T22:03:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If you read the article the judge is not and can not force them to keep working at their old jobs, just that they can’t start new jobs until replaced… which of course will be never. The judge didn’t issue any orders controlling the conduct of the employees, but rather the employer. [CITE](https://www.wbay.com/2022/01/20/thedacare-seeks-court-order-against-ascension-wisconsin-worker-dispute/) > [@](#): > > [The temporary orders says that Ascension must] > Make available to ThedaCare one invasive radiology technician and one registered nurse of the individuals resigning their employment with ThedaCare to join Ascension, with their support to include on-call responsibilities or; > > “Cease the hiring of the individuals referenced until ThedaCare has hired adequate staff to replace the departing IRC team members.” And the injunction is asking for a delay of 90 days; it is not indefinite. Presumably, the judge will let us know whether he agrees on Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/95 "2022-01-22T22:46:35Z")
I find that order odd. What is the allegation of harm to Theda? Since it doesn’t prevent the employeess from leaving, it can’t be that losing those employees is per se a harm to Theda. The harm is that the employees might go to the competitor. But either way, if the employees all just quit, or the employees are hired by the competitor, the net effect on Theda’s operations will be exactly the same. How is Theda harmed by the competitor hiring, but not harmed by the employees just quitting? There’s no difference in the impact on Theda’s patients. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/96 "2022-01-22T22:54:36Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > What is the allegation of harm to Theda? Since it doesn’t prevent the employeess from leaving, it can’t be that losing those employees is per se a harm to Theda. The claimed harm appears to be that they lose their accreditation, which require patients to divert to medical facilities that are hours away. > [@](#): > > ThedaCare operates the only Level II trauma and comprehensive stroke care unit in the Fox Valley. It says losing these workers could impact its ability to have people on call 24/7, which is necessary for accreditation. > > “The facility in Appleton at St. Elizabeth is a primary stroke center so that is one designation below. So stroke victims may have to be diverted to Green Bay or potentially as far as Madison or Milwaukee,” said Lynn Detterman, a senior vice president at ThedaCare. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/97 "2022-01-22T22:58:59Z")
But that happens if all the employees in question quit today, right? It’s the loss of employees that affects their accreditation, not that they’re going to a competitor. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/98 "2022-01-22T23:06:08Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > > [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > > > If the employees have to, by court injunction, stay at ThedaCare while their positions are (re)filled then ThedaCare should, at a minimum, pay them the rate they would have gotten at Ascension. > > As I read it, the order is at the hospital level - the request is to order Ascension to partner with ThedaCare so that its new employees stay at ThedaCare for 90 days. I’m guessing this means that the employees would be getting paid their new rate, by their new employer, and they would not experience any personal financial harm. The employees will be harmed because a form of leverage has been taken from them. Now ThedaCare can continue to mistreat and underpay workers without worrying they’ll all take off and collapse their business model. Being able to walk away as a group and collapse a business is the most important form of leverage an employee has. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/99 "2022-01-22T23:23:13Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But that happens if all the employees in question quit today, right? It’s the loss of employees that affects their accreditation, not that they’re going to a competitor. Yes, I believe that you are correct. Which is why it will be interesting to see how this case ultimately concludes. I can see a facility scrambling to overcome the fact that it just had a bunch of key employees all walk out en masse when they just need a few more weeks to handle the huge turnover, and I can see a poorly run hospital whining because it is overworking and underpaying its staff. I freely acknowledge that I don’t know what is underlying this case. Additionally, and as long as I’m speculating, I can imagine a judge signing off on a temporary injunction with a skeptical eye toward the ultimate merits of the case. Judge: “I hear that you are telling me that patients might die if they have to fly hours away to another hospital, but how is that Ascension’s fault?” Lawyer: “Your honor, we intend to show that they tortuously interfered with the employment status of these critical employees through a concerted solicitation effort, as evidenced by the fact that they all are changing jobs on the same date.” “Counselor, this is an at will state. Do these people have employment contracts?” “No, your honor. But judge, we will show that this was a coordinated campaign of solicitation with full knowledge that it would imperil the good standing of my client.” “Here’s what I’m going to do. Since you are telling me that there are patients who might die, I’m going to sign this temporary. But you better bring me more than the fact that it is hurting your client’s accreditation, or that these people all decided to go to the same new job, if you want the final. People can work where they want. In fact, I don’t want to sit on this. If I clear my calendar Monday, can everybody get in here to finish this? The law requires both sides to have a meaningful chance to be heard, so you’ve got the entire afternoon. But then I’m making my ruling.” ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223/100 "2022-01-22T23:28:52Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > In fact, I don’t want to sit on this. If I clear my calendar Monday, can everybody get in here to finish this? The law requires both sides to have a meaningful chance to be heard, so you’ve got the entire afternoon. But then I’m making my ruling.” That would be fair given the information that we have. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-prevents-at-will-hospital-employees-from-quitting-and-working-new-jobs-resolved-they-may-quit-start-new-jobs/958223.md?page=6)