# Judge Sends 3 Siblings to Detention Center for Refusing Lunch with Father **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 10, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772 "2015-07-10T14:49:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/81 "2015-07-12T11:40:35Z")
How else can a nine year old learn to fashion his toothbrush into a shiv? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/82 "2015-07-12T12:03:08Z")
you did see this in the report? They spent the past days tucked away in a room watching tv. They were never in contact with dangerous juveniles. I can’t imagine disobeying a judge even now. Much less when I was a kid. I’d be shaking in my boots standing in that courtroom. For these kids to act like this I seriously wonder about their up bringing. Were they ever disciplined or taught to respect authority? The judge wasn’t asking much. A short visit with dad in a safe and public place. Probably supervised by a DHS counselor. A couple hours of their time. I hope they’ve learned a lesson and will comply with the judge’s orders. It would be a shame to see formal contempt charges brought against the mom because of her kid’s stubbornness. A father’s rights are at stake here. He has the right to see his kids. > [@](#): > > She held a hearing Friday, three days after a TV station reported her June 24 decision to put the kids — ages 15, 10 and 9 — at Children’s Village. They were kept away from juveniles who are locked up there for committing crimes. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/83 "2015-07-12T12:12:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I can’t imagine disobeying a judge even now. Much less when I was a kid. I’d be shaking in my boots standing in that courtroom. Chillax. Judges put their robes on the same way that you do. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/84 "2015-07-12T12:16:11Z")
The judge needs to be removed from office. She’s fucking insane, and should under no circumstances have any authority to give orders to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/85 "2015-07-12T12:33:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I can’t imagine disobeying a judge even now. Much less when I was a kid. I’d be shaking in my boots standing in that courtroom. For these kids to act like this I seriously wonder about their up bringing. Were they ever disciplined or taught to respect authority?. Sounds like they were brought up to stand up for themselves and question “authority”. Too bad you weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/86 "2015-07-12T13:23:05Z")
Let’s refrain from personal comments. > [@Ruken](#): > > Sounds like they were brought up to stand up for themselves and question “authority”. Too bad you weren’t. I’m also going to move this thread to IMHO, since it’s about people’s opinions on a legal issue ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/87 "2015-07-12T13:40:30Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > The judge needs to be removed from office. She’s fucking insane, and should under no circumstances have any authority to give orders to anyone. Indeed. The judge is the one who learns a lesson. The children, too, are learning some lessons, but the lessons they’re learning are ones that make me sad. They’re learning that sometimes justice doesn’t triumph, that sometimes people with power are terrible petty despots, that sometimes you’ll be held in contempt for who you are. My best hope is that in the end the judge that put them away is removed, and that they win a judgment against her courtroom for her terrible actions, such that they learn about the slow but exceedingly fine grinding of the wheels of justice. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/88 "2015-07-12T13:53:15Z")
Do we have any actual evidence of the mom “poisoning” the kids against the dad? I’m seeing that word thrown about a lot, but do we know it happened? Also, at what point are the kids “allowed” to decide they don’t like him and don’t want a relationship with him? At some point, yes, we can say we want the kids to have a good relationship with their father, but legally, no one has the power to make that happen. You can facilitate all you want, but if they don’t want to see him, you can’t order someone to love. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/89 "2015-07-12T14:10:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The little darlings have been released and are going to summer camp. > > hopefully they learned a lesson. Next time the judge orders them to do something they better listen. That’s true of adults or kids. Judge gives an order, you darn well better do it. “Keep your head down and blindly obey” is not a valuable lesson. These children stood up for their principles in the face of powerful forces. If they were my kids, I’d be proud as hell. History has shown us what can happen when a population “follows orders” from a tyrant. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/90 "2015-07-12T14:32:18Z")
I choose to trust the judge’s decision. She has all the facts of the case and has been dealing directly with the family members. We don’t know how many other times this family refused to comply with the court’s direction. The judge did what she felt was necessary based on her knowledge of the situation. We know practically nothing except what is reported in an article that trivializes the case. What kind of headline is Michigan judge sends 3 siblings to detention center for refusing LUNCH with father This was obviously a carefully planned and supervised meeting in a public place. Somewhere the nervous children could feel safe meeting their father. Its about restoring the rights of an estranged parent. For these journalist hacks to trivialize it as refusing lunch with dad is pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/91 "2015-07-12T14:35:40Z")
Frankly that’s all irrelevant, IMHO. Order family therapy or hold the mother in contempt. You don’t put children in jail to scare them into compliance or to just prove a point. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/92 "2015-07-12T14:57:50Z")
But… But… No one in authority has ever done anything wrong! How could they be in charge if they weren’t gods we should bow before? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/93 "2015-07-12T14:58:55Z")
At a certain age, your mom can’t force you to have lunch with your dad. But a court can. And if you disobey a lawful court order, you can be punished for contempt. THAT is a lesson the kids need to learn. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/94 "2015-07-12T15:11:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I choose to trust the judge’s decision. She has all the facts of the case and has been dealing directly with the family members. I hate this psychic paper bullshit. An excuse kept secret is not more credible than one openly presented, and there is no excuse that would justify what this judge did. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/95 "2015-07-12T15:28:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The little darlings have been released and are going to summer camp. I’d like to more about the “summer camp” the batshit-crazy judge sent them to at the urging of the father. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/96 "2015-07-12T15:59:42Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Do we have any actual evidence of the mom “poisoning” the kids against the dad? I’m seeing that word thrown about a lot, but do we know it happened? Also, at what point are the kids “allowed” to decide they don’t like him and don’t want a relationship with him? > > At some point, yes, we can say we want the kids to have a good relationship with their father, but legally, no one has the power to make that happen. You can facilitate all you want, but if they don’t want to see him, you can’t order someone to love. I think this is the sticking point for me. The oldest kid is 15. Does anyone really think at 18 he’ll have a better relationship with his father if he is cowed by a judge and thrown into detention for not having lunch with him? Anyone? Think of the utter contempt you would feel if someone got a judge to force you to make nice with them. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/97 "2015-07-12T16:52:02Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > How else can a nine year old learn to fashion his toothbrush into a shiv? The judge’s obsession with Manson is starting to make sense. At juvenile detention the children will learn the knife fighting skills needed to make the father regret taking the kids to a steakhouse for lunch. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/98 "2015-07-12T17:01:16Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > The judge needs to be removed from office. She’s fucking insane, and should under no circumstances have any authority to give orders to anyone. I presume the judge has seen the televised interview of Manson by a lawyer - it’s her who should “Come down off her space shuttle” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/99 "2015-07-12T17:51:54Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Thanks to public pressure, the kids have finally been released to summer camp. I’m glad most people are able to see the horror of this judge’s actions or who knows when they’d have been released, but the damage she has done so far is inexcusable. Oh i think most people could see how horrible the judges decision was, but only those in “men are to blame for everything” land could see how this was specifically the dad’s fault instead of the mothers though. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772/100 "2015-07-12T19:13:29Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Oh i think most people could see how horrible the judges decision was, but only those in “men are to blame for everything” land could see how this was specifically the dad’s fault instead of the mothers though. The mom could well have behaved badly, but the children are willing to dine with her and she did not go off on an overseas business trip while the children were in jail and she was the only person permitted to visit them. She also did not push the visitation issue to this point. Perhaps she would have had the roles been reversed, but that is pure speculation. This has nothing to do with “blaming men” for anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-sends-3-siblings-to-detention-center-for-refusing-lunch-with-father/724772.md?page=6)