# Judge to woman groped in a bar: "If you wouldn't have been there that night, none of this would..." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934 "2012-09-07T00:56:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/1 "2012-09-07T00:56:16Z")
“…have happened to you.” (ran out of room in the title) > [@](#): > > The judge sentencing Evans, Coconino County Superior Court Judge Jacqueline Hatch, said she hoped both the defendant and the victim would take lessons away from the case. > > Bad things can happen in bars, Hatch told the victim, adding that other people might be more intoxicated than she was. > > “If you wouldn’t have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you,” Hatch said. > > Hatch told the victim and the defendant that no one would be happy with the sentence she gave, but that finding an appropriate sentence was her duty. > > “I hope you look at what you’ve been through and try to take something positive out of it,” Hatch said to the victim in court. “You learned a lesson about friendship and you learned a lesson about vulnerability.” > > Hatch said that the victim was not to blame in the case, but that all women must be vigilant against becoming victims. > > “When you blame others, you give up your power to change,” Hatch said that her mother used to say. > > SOURCE: [No jail time for Flagstaff cop in bar groping](http://azdailysun.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_0aa8be56-f7a3-11e1-b804-0019bb2963f4.html) I’m speechless that a judge, of all people, would say such a thing. A female judge in particular. Note I am making no comment on whether the defendant got a just punishment. It is the judge’s rhetoric I find shocking. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/2 "2012-09-07T00:59:25Z")
Arizona. Figures. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/3 "2012-09-07T01:02:17Z")
Even judges can sometimes be batshit crazy. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/4 "2012-09-07T01:05:29Z")
Yes, but was it _legitimate_ groping? ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/5 "2012-09-07T01:08:21Z")
A bit overblown. She wasn’t blaming the victim. She said the same thing most people have heard in their lifetimes; “you shouldn’t have been where you had no place of being”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/6 "2012-09-07T01:11:44Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > A bit overblown. She wasn’t blaming the victim. She said the same thing most people have heard in their lifetimes; “you shouldn’t have been where you had no place of being”. A _bar?_ You’re actually claiming women shouldn’t go to bars? That it’s “not their place” to go there, even? How 19th century of you. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/7 "2012-09-07T01:13:01Z")
The first (or rather latest) comment on the link is an attack on the judges grammar: ``` " Juniper - 50 minutes ago "Before giving the officer two years’ probation, Hatch said: 'If you wouldn’t have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you.' // In addition to Judge Hatch's shocking disregard for the victim and misplaced moralizing, she needs to learn to speak correct English! The sentence is a past conditional and should read: "If you hadn't been there, none of this would have happened" (etc). Judge Hatch puts her profession, her town and her self to shame. She should resign." ``` ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/8 "2012-09-07T01:16:07Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > “you shouldn’t have been where you had no place of being”. Fair enough to say to the fucking groper. I had to reread it, can’t believe she said that to the person who was groped. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/9 "2012-09-07T01:17:10Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > A bit overblown. She wasn’t blaming the victim. She said the same thing most people have heard in their lifetimes; “you shouldn’t have been where you had no place of being”. Of course, black people shouldn’t go into bars either (at least those in white neighborhoods), just in case someone decides to beat them up. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/10 "2012-09-07T01:23:23Z")
I read a quote on one of those silly Facebook graphics recently that was somewhat on topic. Basically, it was about how every time someone says something that blames a woman for being sexually assaulted, men should be just as pissed as women, because statements like that assume that the natural male state is rapist, and the only thing keeping men from acting on their natural state is the fact that women keep themselves covered up and sober and stay away from drunk men. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/11 "2012-09-07T01:24:00Z")
I know Coconino county is an actual, indeed beautiful place. But I still can’t help but wonder if the judge blames Krazy Kat for getting hit with a brick. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/12 "2012-09-07T01:24:35Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > She wasn’t blaming the victim. She said the same thing most people have heard in their lifetimes; “you shouldn’t have been where you had no place of being”. Yeah, bitch should know her place. What was she doing out of the kitchen? ---
**Author:** ![Che\_G.Anonymous\_Capitalist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Che\_G.Anonymous\_Capitalist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Che_G.Anonymous_Capitalist)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/13 "2012-09-07T01:28:12Z")
This is no different from the whorish children who hang out on playgrounds. If Little Suzy hadn’t put herself on that swing, she wouldn’t haven’t gotten sodomized and buried in the woods. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/14 "2012-09-07T01:32:54Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > A bit overblown. She wasn’t blaming the victim. She said the same thing most people have heard in their lifetimes; “you shouldn’t have been where you had no place of being”. I think you are on to something here. If you think about it most people could avoid bad things happening to them (such as murder or car accidents or dying in a plane crash or getting raped and so on) if they just weren’t there in the first place. :rolleyes: If we can all manage to not actually be anywhere we can solve most of the world’s ills. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/15 "2012-09-07T01:50:05Z")
> [@](#): > > “If you wouldn’t have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you,” Hatch said. Right. It would have happened to some OTHER woman that night, and you’d be berating HER instead, Yer Honor. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/16 "2012-09-07T01:55:15Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > A bit overblown. She wasn’t blaming the victim. She said the same thing most people have heard in their lifetimes; “you shouldn’t have been where you had no place of being”. Clearly saying that the victim should not have been in a bar is blaming the victim because it’s ok to be in a bar. I hope you will come back and clarify your statement, because what you posted is contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![SweetLucy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@SweetLucy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SweetLucy)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/17 "2012-09-07T02:07:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A _bar?_ You’re actually claiming women shouldn’t go to bars? That it’s “not their place” to go there, even? How 19th century of you. We should only go to bars veiled and with a male relative :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/18 "2012-09-07T02:16:50Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Right. It would have happened to some OTHER woman that night, and you’d be berating HER instead, Yer Honor. Lesson learned: Women shouldn’t be allowed out of the home. They present too much of a vicious temptation to men-in-general. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/19 "2012-09-07T02:22:14Z")
That reminds me of a comedian I heard years ago that was talking about someone that was at a gas station and got hit by a stray bullet and the news anchor mentioned that he was “at the wrong place at the wrong time” The comedian said “The wrong place at the wrong time? Where do you go when your tank’s on E?” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/20 "2012-09-07T02:23:34Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > That reminds me of a comedian I heard years ago that was talking about someone that was at a gas station and got hit by a stray bullet and the news anchor mentioned that he was “at the wrong place at the wrong time” The comedian said “The wrong place at the wrong time? Where do you go when your tank’s on E?” If you find out, tell **OMGaBC**. He’s been running on empty for quite a while now. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934.md?page=2)