# Judge to woman groped in a bar: "If you wouldn't have been there that night, none of this would..." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934 "2012-09-07T00:56:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/21 "2012-09-07T02:27:50Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > If you find out, tell **OMGaBC**. He’s been running on empty for quite a while now. Have you been in the DNC thread? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/22 "2012-09-07T02:29:40Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Lesson learned: Women shouldn’t be allowed out of the home. They present too much of a vicious temptation to men-in-general. Problem solved. Aw fuck, how are they gonna go shopping? Somebody needs to tell **AK84**. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/23 "2012-09-07T02:31:42Z")
So who _does_ belong in a bar? I confess that I’ve been in bars before with the expectation that nobody would grab my genitals or anybody else’s. Kudos to the vic for pressing charges on the perp. She apparently ran into some flak along the way. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/24 "2012-09-07T03:18:10Z")
In fairness, she was there on Grope Night. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/25 "2012-09-07T03:41:39Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I confess that I’ve been in bars before with the expectation that nobody would grab my genitals or anybody else’s. You’re going to the wrong bars. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/26 "2012-09-07T03:45:57Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Arizona. Figures. Indeed. Over the past couple of years, Arizona has begun to replace Florida as the first state that comes to mind when something incredibly fucking stupid happens. Florida is still fighting, though, and Texas occasionally gets a look-in. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/27 "2012-09-07T05:07:13Z")
To the OP, you read that article and it is the _judges_ comments you find most pit worthy? Scroll down and read what the cops pals have to say, it can be summarized as saying “WTF are you punishing him for, he was just having some fun”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/28 "2012-09-07T05:23:18Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I know Coconino county is an actual, indeed beautiful place. But I still can’t help but wonder if the judge blames Krazy Kat for getting hit with a brick. Well? She was the sicko who was always stalking Ignatz Mouse. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/29 "2012-09-07T05:25:39Z")
God I want out of this fucking state. ---
**Author:** ![Kaypea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f08c70/32.png) [@Kaypea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaypea)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/30 "2012-09-07T08:14:12Z")
Hi! I live in beautiful Coconino County and I’m pissed off by this judges outrageous comments. A friend and I started a petition to have the judge step down. Would any of you be willing to sign it and perhaps even share it? Thank you very much! ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/31 "2012-09-07T09:46:44Z")
Agree with comments above and share the same sense of outrage. In the abstract I think that some behaviours do put people more at risk than others and it can sometimes be legitimate to say “It was unwise to be there, dressed like that, doing that” without claiming that the person is responsible or deserved what subsequently happened to them. But nothing in this case makes me feel that this would be a justified thing to say here. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/32 "2012-09-07T10:07:17Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Have you been in the DNC thread? I know it’s a damned thread-shit fest in there. I mean skipping OMG and that other fucktard (moonshot925 or something) there are some really good, funny and interesting points of view but dear lord. And seriously OMGABC, really? It’s her fault because she was IN A BAR?!?!?! You’re just playing with us right? You’re giggling right now because we’re all jumping up and down ranting at you, I hope. Because the other side of this coin is that you believe that bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/33 "2012-09-07T10:13:38Z")
That’s it, I’m convinced. OMG has to be a [deep cover liberal](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Deep_cover_liberal). He just HAS to be. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/34 "2012-09-07T11:04:34Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > That’s it, I’m convinced. OMG has to be a [deep cover liberal](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Deep_cover_liberal). He just HAS to be. That’s it! OMG AND the WBC “god hates fags” dude. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/35 "2012-09-07T11:07:37Z")
She should be able to there and not be groped but in the real world can she or any of us really expect this? There are many things that should not happen in this world but they do, including forms of assalt sexual or otherwise, but also things like accidents and diseases. Also it doesn’t just go with bars, but anything outside of a rubber room with 24/7 protection there is some risk to life and living. I think the judge’s comments were misguided, and serve to prevent her and other women from enjoying life by limiting their access to bars out of fear. But in living a really full life there is the undeniable risk of a higher chance of such a thing happening. I think that part of the message is OK and good. It is along the lines of the Dos Equis ‘most interesting man in the world’ commercial - if you have to sign a liability waver it probably is worth doing. As with such things went a person gets hurt in such a activity she should have people to rally to her. This issue I also feel is not related to his intent, and just because these things happen does not excuse his actions in doing it. In some ways, this guy being a ex-cop I feel it should be much harder on him, especially due to the abuse of power that was expressed to gain entry to the places and also perhaps in his unrestrained actions towards her. In some other ways I do feel that, if a first time offense, we all do wild stupid things and no need to ruin a life over it - or if we do we will all be in this boat at some point ourselves (perhaps not this exact situation) . We are not perfect and can not follow rules or laws perfectly and need mercy at times for being human in this world. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/36 "2012-09-07T11:15:55Z")
I’d prefer to see a transcript rather than a reporters summary, although it is difficult to see how it could be incredibly out of context. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/37 "2012-09-07T11:19:51Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > She should be able to there and not be groped but in the real world can she or any of us really expect this? > > There are many things that should not happen in this world but they do, including forms of assalt sexual or otherwise, but also things like accidents and diseases. Also it doesn’t just go with bars, but anything outside of a rubber room with 24/7 protection there is some risk to life and living. > > I think the judge’s comments were misguided, and serve to prevent her and other women from enjoying life by limiting their access to bars out of fear. But in living a really full life there is the undeniable risk of a higher chance of such a thing happening. I think that part of the message is OK and good. It is along the lines of the Dos Equis ‘most interesting man in the world’ commercial - if you have to sign a liability waver it probably is worth doing. Do you really think the woman’s never heard that before? Ever? From her parents, from her friends, from society as a whole? Because maybe if she was raised in a bubble, the judge might think that bit of advice was worthwhile to convey. If not - the judge was in court, so it’s time to fuck off with the moralizing about What Do You Expect Will Happen (Because Guys Just Can’t Help It) if you dare go out on your own or wear a skirt or look a guy in the eyes or have pretty hair or have big breasts or smile or wear some makeup. Or set foot in a bar. Because it’s partially the woman’s fault for daring to have a drink in a bar, in our world. Shit like that is why women often **don’t** make a big deal about being groped. They think maybe they deserved it because of what they did or failed to do, or at least, people will think they did. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/38 "2012-09-07T11:52:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In fairness, she was there on Grope Night. You really should just steer clear of any place that has [Inappropriate Touch Tuesdays](http://tosh.comedycentral.com/video-clips/inappropriate-touch-tuesdays). ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/39 "2012-09-07T13:00:36Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Yes, but was it _legitimate_ groping? If it was, her body would have had a way to just shut it down. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934/40 "2012-09-07T13:03:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > \ > > If you think about it most people could avoid bad things happening to them (such as murder or car accidents or dying in a plane crash or getting raped and so on) if they just weren’t there in the first place. \. Or as Woody Allen said, “Ninety percent of lite is just showing up.”😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judge-to-woman-groped-in-a-bar-if-you-wouldnt-have-been-there-that-night-none-of-this-would/633934.md?page=3)