# Judgement at Nuremberg **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [April 21, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579 "2024-04-21T15:46:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/1 "2024-04-21T15:46:22Z")
I just finished watching this movie for the first time. Wow, what an incredible movie. It is very clever because it makes the trial about people (judges) that you can kind of understand why they should be found guilty, but also why they should be found not guilty. They sent people for sterilization, they sent people to the camps. But well… watch the movie. The manner in which they present a case for their innocence is just well done. I really like the defense attorney. Incredibly well written and well acted. I highly recommend it. Available on Prime Video (probably elsewhere too). Oh, William Shatner is in it in a minor role. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/2 "2024-04-21T15:52:42Z")
> **[Judgment at Nuremberg (1961) ⭐ 8.3 | Drama, War](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055031/?ref_=ext_shr)** > > 2h 59m | Approved It got a boatload of awards, including two Oscars. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/3 "2024-04-21T15:54:48Z")
Yeah. And it deserved them. The defense attorney was played by Maximilian Schell. I didn’t recognize him since he was so much younger. One heck of a great actor. > **[Maximilian Schell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Schell)** > > Maximilian Schell (8 December 1930 – 1 February 2014) was a Swiss actor. He won the Academy Award for Best Actor for the 1961 American film Judgment at Nuremberg, his second acting role in Hollywood. Born in Austria, his parents were involved in the arts and he grew up surrounded by performance and literature. While he was still a child, his family fled to Switzerland in 1938 when Austria was annexed by Nazi Germany, and they settled in Zürich. After World War II ended, Schell took up acting a I’m blown away by the movie. 10 out of 10. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/4 "2024-04-21T16:31:55Z")
I have seen it in a long time but I remember it being great. Most movies headlined by Spencer Tracy were at least good. It was Judy Garland’s last great performance and I thought she was great in it. Along with Pre-Kirk, Shatner, there is also Pre-Klink Werner Klemperer. Besides Oscars for \* [Maximilian Schell](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001703/?ref_=ttawd_awd_1) & \* [Abby Mann](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0542631/?ref_=ttawd_awd_1) for best writing, there were 9 other nominations. \* [Spencer Tracy](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000075/?ref_=ttawd_awd_1), \* [Montgomery Clift](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001050/?ref_=ttawd_awd_1), \* [Judy Garland](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000023/?ref_=ttawd_awd_1) and \* [Stanley Kramer](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006452/?ref_=ttawd_awd_1) for both Director and Best Picture. The picture lost a lot of Oscars to West Side Story. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/5 "2024-04-21T16:37:59Z")
Oskar Werner’s character confronts Burt Lancaster’s in the prison yard with the truth that he was just as corrupt and complicit as the rest of them. In _Ship of Fools_ he similarly confronts Vivian Leigh’s character when she expects men to fall all over her even though her appeal was based only on sex long faded. Stanley Kramer liked to use him as a deflationary device. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/6 "2024-04-21T16:42:50Z")
Probably off topic. Deleted by user. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/7 "2024-04-21T17:03:53Z")
There were a few defenses: 1. They were unaware of the extent of what was happening. 2. A judge’s job is to administer the law, not to question the law. 3. Other countries have similar laws esp. with respect to sterilization. 4. They were doing so because they loved their country and hoped to outlast Hitler and his regime. 5. Other countries enabled the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/8 "2024-04-21T17:17:46Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Along with Pre-Kirk, Shatner, there is also Pre-Klink Werner Klemperer. Both of those took me briefly out of the movie, in part because Klemperer in retrospect seemed to be a serious version of Klink. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/9 "2024-04-21T17:20:38Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Oskar Werner’s character confronts Burt Lancaster’s in the prison yard with the truth that he was just as corrupt and complicit as the rest of them. I think you may have the wrong Werner, there… ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/10 "2024-04-21T17:29:08Z")
It is funny how certain characters just become so iconic for an actor. At least Shatner was playing a (army) captain. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/11 "2024-04-21T17:42:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > I think you may have the wrong Werner, there… [/quote] Oops you are correct ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/12 "2024-04-21T18:30:39Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > in part because Klemperer in retrospect seemed to be a serious version of Klink. First, Judgement at Nuremberg is an amazing film. Everyone is giving an amazing performance. The whole cast is top notch. We watch it about once a year. It says a lot about the situation in post-was Germany. Some wanted the Germans crushed, some wanted justice,not vengeance. But what justice is there for the Holocaust? It’s just too much, too big. Gassing every German involved in their own ovens still isn’t enough, yet it is clearly too much. But now I wonder what happened to Burkhalter and Hochstetter after the war. Burkhalter was high enough in the chain oif command he could have had a seat at Nuremberg. Hochstetter probably was executed. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/13 "2024-04-21T18:58:01Z")
Hochstetter was Howard Caine, who played Judy Garland’s husband in JaN. He was also in another Stanley Kramer social awareness pic, [Pressure Point,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_Point_(1962_film)) where Bobby Darin plays a juvenile delinquent who joins the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/14 "2024-04-21T20:18:52Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I just finished watching this movie for the first time. Wow, what an incredible movie. It is. One thing for new watchers to know- it goes through tertiary Nazi criminals. It doesnt cover Goering, and the big fish of mazidom. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/15 "2024-04-21T20:38:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > it goes through tertiary Nazi criminals. It doesnt cover Goering, and the big fish of mazidom. That’s right, and when it came out there were likely more people than there are today who were hyper-aware of the big fish. So focusing on people whose names weren’t known allowed audiences to think about the issues more than about the headline-making names–very smart. The way Mann and Kramer handled the presentation of Schell’s character was brilliant (and of course they had a highly-skilled actor who could pull it off). For a plot with not much suspense in it–audiences knew that the Nuremberg trials had resulted in many convictions–the face-heel turn of the Schell character provided a solid and effective twist. There was subtlety in the handling of Dietrich’s character, too. It’s just an amazing movie overall. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/16 "2024-04-21T21:07:08Z")
Yeah, that’s what makes it really work. There’s an element of plausibility to the defense compared to say Kaltenbrunner. Of course, the same arguments could be made. Kaltenbrunner mainly argued he didn’t know … and he was really quite nice to the Jews. But it feels pretty hollow for somebody so deeply involved in planning and implementing the Holocaust. Same with the doctors directly experimented on their victims. But the judges… the judges have that hair of an element of plausibility. At the real Judges’ Trial, there were 16 defendants, and four were acquitted. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/17 "2024-04-21T22:30:28Z")
A showing of the movie was one of the events at our orientation week in first year law school. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2024, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/18 "2024-04-21T22:36:58Z")
That’s cool! I left a comment for Legal Eagle to do a reaction video to it. I hope he does! ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/19 "2024-04-22T01:05:38Z")
FWIW when my family lived in The UK we rented a cottage fro one of the UK judges. Good movie! ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579/20 "2024-04-22T02:27:50Z")
If you have Netflix, have a look at 2016’s Tokyo Trial. It’s without doubt flawed, but the ambiguity of colonial powers putting a nation on trial for “crimes against peace” when, aside from the on-scene atrocities, that’s something they’ve done themselves is relevant. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgement-at-nuremberg/1000579.md?page=2)