# Judging people with unfortunate tattoo choices? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502 "2018-06-21T13:20:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/21 "2018-06-21T18:40:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Will professional tattoo artists caution their clients on a possibly ill-advised tattoo? > > Example: > > Artist: “Hey man, I am happy to give you the tattoo you have requested but I have to ask if you are a 100% sure about this. A tattoo of a gun on your face might cause you some hassles down the road and I would personally advise against it.” > > I’ve never gotten a tattoo so I do not know how they would (generally) react to something like this. I’ve spent hundreds of hours hanging out in various tattoo shops. Every artist I know is a bit hesitant regarding face tats (other than eyeliner type work). They will point out the downsides, and make sure they get signed releases, and a copy of a DL to prove age. A few just turn away work that will likely come back to haunt them, or inflate their price. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/22 "2018-06-21T19:13:42Z")
A lot of this depends on your HR Manager. Sometimes you get somebody who just likes to hire people with tattoos. Now your whole store looks like the circus. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/23 "2018-06-21T19:18:41Z")
He could solve his own problem by having it removed. My cursory research said that a tattoo can be removed completely. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/24 "2018-06-21T19:34:08Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I’m okay with tattoos, as long as they can be covered up with long sleeved shirt and pants. > > Face/neck tattoos are utterly stupid and I would never hire someone that had one. I’m not crazy about hand tattoos either, and in fact many artists won’t decorate the face, neck, hands, and/or genital area. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/25 "2018-06-21T19:38:25Z")
The OP said the guy is a Mensa member. I didn’t see that in the article, so I’m guessing s/he was being facetious (a word likely to be used by the upper 2%, BTW 😃 ). My uncle, who is in his late 70s, has a large scar on his forearm, and when I was a little kid, I asked him what happened to him as little kids will do. He told me, “I had a tattoo removed” and his whole demeanor said, “Don’t you EVER, EVER get one!” Back then, laser treatments weren’t available, so he had it surgically removed at his own expense and covered with a skin graft. My dad never saw it and doesn’t know what it was, and has implied that he probably doesn’t want to know, either. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/26 "2018-06-21T19:39:41Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > A lot of this depends on your HR Manager. Sometimes you get somebody who just likes to hire people with tattoos. Now your whole store looks like the circus. Nowadays, that’s becoming less and less of an option. When I was job-hunting a few years ago, I was jokingly told more than once, “You should put on some temporary tattoos and go apply for a job, and see what happens.” ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/27 "2018-06-21T19:53:36Z")
If you dress, speak, or otherwise comport yourself in a manner deliberately designed to shock the bourgeoisie, I don’t think you get to complain about people treating you badly because you “choose to be different”! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/28 "2018-06-21T20:20:27Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > If you dress, speak, or otherwise comport yourself in a manner deliberately designed to shock the bourgeoisie, I don’t think you get to complain about people treating you badly because you “choose to be different”! Yeah. ‘I don’t care about your petty conventions, but I would be a model employee’ is not a message conveyed by having a gun tattooed on your face. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/29 "2018-06-21T20:34:22Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > That said, I don’t think a tattoo should impact your future. A tattoo is a particularly foolish way to stumble in your youth, but the reality is that we have all done stupid things as young adults that we wish we could take back. A bad tattoo is not the worst decision that a 19-year-old can make, it’s just a particularly visible one that lasts a long time. So, in my ideal world, he should be employable based upon his current merits and not upon his past mistakes. Depends how ideal I guess. In the ideal enough world it wouldn’t be problem not to be able to find a job, or no such thing as being limited to shitty jobs 'cause there wouldn’t be any such thing. In the realm of trying to make the real world closer to ideal, I can see asking employers (not forcing them via govt coercion) to be open minded about a worker’s skills and content of character and look beyond the superficial. If, that doesn’t depend on the company’s customers doing the same, because an employer really have no control over that. Even to some extent it’s reasonable to consider other employees’ reactions. But there are decent jobs without customer contact and environments where coworkers are less likely to care. Example given above, if you turn down somebody with the skills and references and who comes across as a straight shooter (sorry) for a position as welder (positions hard to fill just now with experienced people) just because they have a gun tattooed on their face, that’s probably your loss as employer. Of course there is no absolute consistency with stuff like this. Society judges it has a compelling interest to have govt force employers to hire people though customers might rather not deal with a person of a particular race, religion, sex, etc. A tattoo on your face just doesn’t qualify, society has decided so far.\* \*some might say that’s a categorical difference based on whether the person made a choice. But even without opening any cans of worms about whether legally protected classes in employment ever have an element of choice, something stupid your former self did is no longer a choice for your current self. Assuming it’s irreversible (the other issue here being it’s not necessarily with a tattoo). ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/30 "2018-06-21T20:44:04Z")
If you get a tattoo, it seems like at some point you expect people to see it, and people being what they are, they’re gonna judge it. People with a lot of ink are gonna judge it one way (“Nice tat” “Sloppy linework”), people without tattoos might judge it differently. But I have to wonder, who is a back piece for? You’re rarely going to see that tattoo. Yet you’ve invested hours and dollars to get it. And mostly other people aren’t going to see it unless you’re at the pool. So you did all that for a bunch of strangers at the pool? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/31 "2018-06-21T20:49:51Z")
Of the IRL people I know with face ink (not forehead guns, but still facial) some make it work for them. I know a guy who sells high-end car audio equipment and installation. He’s on commission and is the leader in sales. He can read people and he adapts his spiel as needed. Sometimes he leads off with “seriously, can you believe this shit?” while pointing at the ink. Sometimes it’s, “imagine how good I am if they’d hire me despite this”. People love him. I also know a woman with a single teardrop tattoo. She isn’t as personable. People often ask what the tattoo signifys (she looks approachable even with the ink). If she’s in a good mood, she answers, “fuck you, it means fuck you.” She’s actually ok if you know her. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/32 "2018-06-21T20:51:44Z")
There are plenty of jobs out there for people with extensive tattoos, even extensive shitty tattoos. You can work at a coffee shop, or construction, or do computer stuff. But a gun tattooed on your face goes beyond being covered with shitty tattoos. Spongebob Squarepants on your face shows shitty judgement. A gun on your face shows shitty judgement plus something else. So if you hire this guy you have to commit to mitigating his shitty judgement that made him decide to get a tattoo on his face, and you also have to commit to mitigating the something else that made him decide on a gun. Oh, that was 25 years ago, and you’ve turned your life around? Cool story bro. If your life is turned around, why haven’t you touched up the gun into a dragon or something? Or got the laser treatment to fade the gun into the background? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/33 "2018-06-21T20:55:38Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > But I have to wonder, who is a back piece for? You’re rarely going to see that tattoo. Yet you’ve invested hours and dollars to get it. And mostly other people aren’t going to see it unless you’re at the pool. So you did all that for a bunch of strangers at the pool? I have a piece of original art inked on my top-left back. It’s about ten-12 hours of work, not sure what that means in $$, most of my ink has been obtained via barter. It’s there for me. I rarely see it, almost never even think about it. But every so often I catch a glance of it in a mirror and it makes me happy. The hell with everyone else, my tattoos represent memories that have meaning to _me_. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/34 "2018-06-21T21:05:34Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > There are plenty of jobs out there for people with extensive tattoos, even extensive shitty tattoos. True. For instance, the kiddies would love to go to the pediatrician if [this guy](http://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/suspect-wanted-for-southern-ohio-breakins) was their doc. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/35 "2018-06-21T21:21:10Z")
Like was said before, that guy shouldn’t expect a customer-facing position any time soon. If he’s cranking out code in a cubicle in the back office it wouldn’t be that much of a problem, assuming he could prove to the hiring manager that: A. He knows what he’s doing. B. The poor impulse control that lead him to get that face tattoo won’t impact his work. But he would have to actually demonstrate B. And that’s why a customer-facing job isn’t in the cards, because while he might be able to demonstrate B to his software development lead, he’s not going to be able to demonstrate B to random customers that walk in off the street. It might be true, but how can he demonstrate it’s true to the customers in the 20 seconds before they turn around and walk back out the door? The point is, for certain jobs he just has to convince one guy–his boss–that he can do the job despite the facial evidence to the contrary. For other jobs he would have to convince dozens of strangers every day, and that’s bordering on impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/36 "2018-06-21T21:28:46Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > For instance, the kiddies would love to go to the pediatrician if [this guy](http://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/suspect-wanted-for-southern-ohio-breakins) was their doc. I was just imagining the guy in the OP being a doctor on Scrubs–J.D. and Turk talking about Doctor Gunface and someone in the background yelling “That’s Doctor Gunfahsay!” ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/37 "2018-06-21T22:41:17Z")
We all judge people on appearance all the time. Tattoo, make-up, clothing. They’re all the same thing, just with different durations in time. Out of those three things, tattoos are arguably the least reasonable basis for judgement because they might or might not reflect current choices. For example, if I turn up at a job interview wearing a toga and with my face painted blue with green spots that’s a reflection of my current choices. If I turn up at the same job with some stars, a pigeon and a digestive biscuit tattooed on my face that’s a reflection of my past choices, not necessarily my current choices. I think that the key questions are the reasons for the choices and to what extent a business should consider public opinion. I’ll use myself as an example. In the past, I broke my employer’s rules by allowing my hair to grow longer than the collar of my shirt. Men weren’t allowed to do that because it was deemed contrary to public opinion for men to have “long” hair and thus not allowed in a customer-facing job. The same argument that some people use today regarding tattoos. It’s a legitimate concern, but where should the line be drawn? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/38 "2018-06-21T23:18:04Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > We all judge people on appearance all the time. Tattoo, make-up, clothing. They’re all the same thing, just with different durations in time. Out of those three things, tattoos are arguably the least reasonable basis for judgement because they might or might not reflect current choices. For example, if I turn up at a job interview wearing a toga and with my face painted blue with green spots that’s a reflection of my current choices. If I turn up at the same job with some stars, a pigeon and a digestive biscuit tattooed on my face that’s a reflection of my past choices, not necessarily my current choices. The best predictors of future decisions are past decisions. You generally can’t fix Stupid. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/39 "2018-06-22T01:33:06Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > If you get a tattoo, it seems like at some point you expect people to see it, and people being what they are, they’re gonna judge it. People with a lot of ink are gonna judge it one way (“Nice tat” “Sloppy linework”), people without tattoos might judge it differently. > > But I have to wonder, who is a back piece for? You’re rarely going to see that tattoo. Yet you’ve invested hours and dollars to get it. And mostly other people aren’t going to see it unless you’re at the pool. So you did all that for a bunch of strangers at the pool? There’s a middle-aged woman in my city who probably lives in my neighborhood, because I regularly see her while out doing errands. She has the most impressive back piece, all in B&W line, and shows it off by wearing halters and other tops that expose her upper back. One day, I complimented her on it, and she said, “It’s in honor of my son, who served in the military, and I am very proud of him.” The piece features a flag, a picture of him, the logo of the service he was in, etc. and he did come home unhurt. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502/40 "2018-06-22T01:42:33Z")
Here’s a story from 2012. > **[Is the world ready for tattooed, pierced physicians? - The DO](https://thedo.osteopathic.org/2012/02/is-the-world-ready-for-tattooed-pierced-physicians/)** > > Generation Y’s affinity for body art has opened a new front in the battle of free expression vs. professional conformity. This is the Google Image page for Dan Jones, formerly the guitarist for the deathcore band Chelsea Grin. He left the band last year to attend medical school - in UTAH, of all places. [https://www.google.com/search?q=dan+jones+chelsea+grin&rlz=1C1LDJZ\_enUS504US504&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6-s7ukebbAhVG\_IMKHW49DvoQ\_AUICigB&biw=1024&bih=679](https://www.google.com/search?q=dan+jones+chelsea+grin&rlz=1C1LDJZ_enUS504US504&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6-s7ukebbAhVG_IMKHW49DvoQ_AUICigB&biw=1024&bih=679) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judging-people-with-unfortunate-tattoo-choices/816502.md?page=3)