# judgmental woman **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220 "2004-11-23T02:59:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/21 "2004-11-23T17:45:52Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > I did e mail the pastor last night, I will await his reply. > > Believe me, if the elder didn’t want her to say this, she wouldn’t have, \*\*wives must \*\* **be submissive in this church**. (bolding mine) That’s a pretty good reason to stop attending right there. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/22 "2004-11-23T17:55:10Z")
That’s what I was going to say. When I was little, I attended a friend’s Sunday school. Each week we got a white sheep sticker to paste over the black sheep. If we didn’t attend one week, we had to bring a new member to church to get a white sheep sticker. Well, of course, one week I was sick and missed Sunday school. I must have bugged everyone in the neighborhood to go to church with me so I wouldn’t have any outstanding black sheep, and when my mom asked me why I was crying, I told her. Well, she went ballistic. She went to the Sunday school teacher, told her it was cruel to use children to increase church membership and that not only was I not bringing in anyone, they had just lost two members (me and my sister.) I’m not a church goer. I’ll go if there’s a family event with the SILs and BILs, but I don’t attend any on my own. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/23 "2004-11-23T18:09:16Z")
> [@Caricci](#): > > Just wondering, though, **vanilla** , how do you get to the grocery store and stuff if you can’t take yourself to church? The grocery store and stuff is a few blocks away so my father drives us. That church was too far for him to drive and I wouldn’t put him out that way. We have 2 prosepcts nearby now, so we will find a nicer church. By church, i mean the people, who are the church. It was even the way she said it, all angry and insulting. I needed discipline. I’m sure this will be told as Rose was bad. But God knows otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/24 "2004-11-23T18:39:37Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > . > I needed discipline. I’m sure this will be told as Rose was bad. > But God knows otherwise. Beg pardon? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/25 "2004-11-23T18:45:36Z")
Apparently, when someone does wrong, they are to be disciplined; that is, told how wrong they are, etc. I am sure it will be told now we are gone I just wasn’t a good church member. Sorry, sometimes my syntax and grammar leave my sentences a bit ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/26 "2004-11-23T18:50:52Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > Apparently, when someone does wrong, they are to be disciplined; that is, told how wrong they are, etc. > I am sure it will be told now we are gone I just wasn’t a good church member. You know what, it sounds the church is the bad one, not you. It’s like the church version of mental abuse, eating away at your self-esteem. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/27 "2004-11-23T18:53:54Z")
No corrosive damage done, I know the couple was out of line and wrong. I still wonder what the pastor will say. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/28 "2004-11-23T19:16:59Z")
> [@trandallt](#): > > (bolding mine) > > That’s a pretty good reason to stop attending right there. Agreed! I will not be a submissive wife! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/29 "2004-11-24T05:36:45Z")
Oh, **vanilla** , so sorry this happened to you. Especially when they were sort of forcing you to go to the earlier service. I really dislike the early service at my church, and love the 10:30 service, and not just because of sleep issues! There is a different vibe at the different services. The one thing (but not the only thing!) I really like about my church is that if someone says “we missed you last week (month, etc.)” they say it because they really missed you! Not because they are keeping track of how often you attend (though we do do that) but because they noticed you weren’t there and wished you had been. Many people switch back and forth between services, or work on Sundays sometimes, or only attend on Communion days, or don’t come if it’s good golfing weather, or if the Steelers are playing Cleveland. I have never heard any of our ministers or staff people criticize anyone for their level of attendance. I am always baffled about churches that do this. And the discipline thing? I had a friend who told me how her church members would reprimand her during church services for things they had observed from driving past her house (her sons wearing Scout uniforms, her clothing while weeding the yard, the fact that she was seen talking to a male neighbor in her yard when her husband wasn’t home). I know that many people find that level of involvement in their lives comforting and liked being held to a standard. But if this is not comforting or helpful to you on your spiritual journey, don’t settle for it. And don’t feel bad for moving on. But like you, I’m dying to know how the minister will respond to this situation! Of course, I would have told the woman that you needed to build up your son’s strength after his illness by taking him to church for a good dinner (hope it was potluck! I love potluck!) that would nourish him both physically and spiritually. But I’m always a bit snarky like that! ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/30 "2004-11-24T06:10:01Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > Apparently, when someone does wrong, they are to be disciplined; that is, told how wrong they are, etc. > I am sure it will be told now we are gone I just wasn’t a good church member. > Sorry, sometimes my syntax and grammar leave my sentences a bit ambiguous. That’s kinda creepily cultish, don’t you think? Drop these people like a hot rock and find somewhere where wives don’t submit and people have some manners, I say. I called dibs on you in the “adopt an opposition Doper” thread, so I now feel oddly protective, you see. > [@](#): > > Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons. > In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything. > A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well. Also, rat him out about his other three wives. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/31 "2004-11-24T06:33:45Z")
One of the great things about church is that it puts us together with a whole lot of people we wouldn’t choose to hang out with. Then we get lots of chances to practice forgiveness and loving our neighbor (who drives us crazy). Then, we don’t go to church to hang out with people we like, we go to worship and learn. Letting one jerk drive us away from a perfectly good church is letting someone else control some portion of our spiritual life–it gives them too much space in our heads. Just my thoughts, but why let her win? Assuming the church is fine and good in all other respects, anyway. If it isn’t, then by all means find somewhere else with more truth to offer. ---
**Author:** ![pastorjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/90db22/32.png) [@pastorjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pastorjc)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/32 "2004-11-24T13:22:53Z")
I am “Vanilla’s”/Rose’s pastor. I got the link to this bulletin board from an email she sent to the elder in question and joined the board so I could reply. As of this morning I have not received an email from Rose regarding this situation and am awaiting one. Folks- as someone has already written, responses to emails and posting to bulletin boards are subjective to both the writer and reader. As a pastor I am disturbed that a church member would go to a bulletin board and post responses without doing the right thing of taking care of the situation one on one with the other person(Matthew 18). This is a matter that needs to handled between the two parties involved using biblical principles. There are always two sides to a story. Pastor Jeff ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/33 "2004-11-24T13:41:59Z")
> [@pastorjc](#): > > As a pastor I am disturbed that a church member would go to a bulletin board and post responses without doing the right thing of taking care of the situation one on one with the other person(Matthew 18). This is a matter that needs to handled between the two parties involved using biblical principles. No disrespect intended, but why are you here then? Shouldn’t you be telling her this directly? She was upset, we are (in a nebulous Internet way) her friends, we tried (again, in a nebulous Internet way) to comfort her. Justified or not, the upset was real, and we addressed it. Seems pretty Christian to me. > [@](#): > > There are always two sides to a story. There are many more than that. We can only deal with what we know. ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/34 "2004-11-24T13:43:42Z")
> [@pastorjc](#): > > I am “Vanilla’s”/Rose’s pastor. I got the link to this bulletin board from an email she sent to the elder in question and joined the board so I could reply. As of this morning I have not received an email from Rose regarding this situation and am awaiting one. > > Folks- as someone has already written, responses to emails and posting to bulletin boards are subjective to both the writer and reader. > > As a pastor I am disturbed that a church member would go to a bulletin board and post responses without doing the right thing of taking care of the situation one on one with the other person(Matthew 18). This is a matter that needs to handled between the two parties involved using biblical principles. > > There are always two sides to a story. > > Pastor Jeff Hey, Pastor Jeff, you sound like a real jerk coming in here like this. It’s not like vanilla identified you or your church, so what do you care if she posts here? Actually, I’m considering reporting your post because it seems REALLY inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/35 "2004-11-24T13:46:49Z")
> [@Caricci](#): > > Hey, Pastor Jeff, you sound like a real jerk coming in here like this. It’s not like vanilla identified you or your church, so what do you care if she posts here? Actually, I’m considering reporting your post because it seems REALLY inappropriate. “Jerk” seems a bit harsh for what is, by this Board’s standards, a pretty mild post, and I’m guessing Pastor Jeff is here because he is attempting to deal with **Vanilla** ’s situation proactively. Which doesn’t negate my questions above, mind. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/36 "2004-11-24T13:53:20Z")
> [@pastorjc](#): > > I am “Vanilla’s”/Rose’s pastor. I got the link to this bulletin board from an email she sent to the elder in question and joined the board so I could reply. Yeh, right. I’m sure **vanilla** talked about complaining to the SDMB in an email to the person who had offended her. Suuuuuuure. Why don’t you crawl back under your rock, “pastor”? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/37 "2004-11-24T14:00:02Z")
You’re a cynical woman, **ETF**. It’s one of the things I like about you. That and the cats. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/38 "2004-11-24T14:04:29Z")
Could we maybe be nicer to **Vanilla** ’s pastor? Surely we have a golden opportunity to show that goodness and compassion are not limited to the theists. And I am certain that the couple who have helped **Vanilla** have their version of the facts that ought to be heard before judging. ---
**Author:** ![pastorjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/90db22/32.png) [@pastorjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pastorjc)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/39 "2004-11-24T14:09:49Z")
I didn’t mean to offend anyone by posting here. I do plan on speaking to Rose about this issue. I came here because she sent the link of her original post to the elder in our church. Apparently she wanted him to come here and read it. TFT, thanks for judging me (jerk) without knowing me. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220/40 "2004-11-24T14:11:56Z")
Hey, **gobear** , did you notice that our guest preacher has chosen the name “pastor **jc** ”? Do you really think his claim of how he found out about this is believable? Dont you think the odds are high that that’s a gigantic WHOOOOOOOOOSH going over your head? No disrespect intended to you, you’re one of my favorite posters, but my Cyni-Co-Meter is flashing red on this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judgmental-woman/276220.md?page=3)