# Judicial Killing by Firing Squad **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637 "2014-05-17T15:54:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/1 "2014-05-17T15:54:43Z")
This article: > **[Utah lawmaker proposes firing squad executions for death row inmates](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/17/utah-execution-firing-squad-death-row-injection)** > > Amid attention on botched lethal injections, state representative says squad is 'probably the most humane way to kill somebody' makes the claim that a firing squad causes immediate painless death. I find this hard to believe if the target is as stated the heart (shooting the head would probably be too gruesome. My understanding as a nurse is that the brain continues to function for several minutes after the heart stops pumping and will be conscious for part of this period. Surely during that amount of time, pain and terror will be experienced- much as the recent botched intravenous poisoning case. Is claiming that a firing squad is painless just a piece of death supporters’ propaganda? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/2 "2014-05-17T16:04:59Z")
I don’t know if it’s painful or not, but death is not instantaneous, and there’s no guarantee the shooters will hit the heart accurately. Gary Gilmore was executed by firing squad in 1977. It took some time before he was declared dead. Seconds at least, maybe minutes, I don’t recall. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/3 "2014-05-17T16:08:21Z")
No euphemisms please. They are shoot-kill squads. But seriously, why not put this in your other thread. And if not this as a stand alone is more of a GQ question. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/4 "2014-05-17T16:15:52Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No euphemisms please. They are shoot-kill squads. > > But seriously, why not put this in your other thread. And if not this as a stand alone is more of a GQ question. Every Judicial Killing thread I have known has ended up in GD eventually. It is a heated subject. This is a separate question to the other one- its answer may be factual but its ramifications are likely to be emotional. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/5 "2014-05-17T16:36:40Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > T > My understanding as a nurse is that the brain continues to function for several minutes after the heart stops pumping and will be conscious for part of this period. Surely during that amount of time, pain and terror will be experienced- much as the recent botched intravenous poisoning case. I believe the process is considerably faster in the case of ex-sanguination, which presumably happens in the case of taking several bullets to the heart. Still, I doubt it’s instantaneous. [This article](http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/122/14/325.abstract) suggests about a minute for cattle slaughtered via traditional Jewish practice of severing the carotid. I imagine a human being would experience something around the same magnitude if they were shot through the heart. Note the claim in the article is from a State Rep. I doubt he’s speaking from any particular medical expertise. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/6 "2014-05-17T17:13:37Z")
Let us do a little calculus of pain here. Being shot is said to be extremely painful, not to mention the physical hit to the body. Is a minute or so of such pain acceptable or is it cruel and unusual. The article has one opinion (from a life rather than death perspective that although SCOTUS might continue to allow it as a choice, if it is mandated then it might be unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/7 "2014-05-17T17:31:43Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Let us do a little calculus of pain here. Being shot is said to be extremely painful . . . I can’t find the cite, but I have read that in the very few gun-duels that actually happened in the Old West, it was not uncommon for **both** cowboys to die – because if you’re not shot in an instant kill-zone like the heart or brain, it is possible for you to get shot fatally and get off your own shot **before you even notice you have been shot.** ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/8 "2014-05-17T17:34:09Z")
Several shots through the heart would probably send you into a state of shock and you may not feel any pain, or remain concious for very long. That in itself is not instantaneous death. I’d take death by firing squad over most other methods in use now. I’d prefer guillotine to get the chance to know if I remained concious with my head seperated from my body for a few seconds before I die. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/9 "2014-05-17T17:59:42Z")
Why limit the procedure to a firing squad, especially one composed of a half dozen or so people with high-powered rifles shooting from point blank range? Changing to a single head shot using a low velocity, hollow point bullet would eliminate (much of, or all) the “gruesome” aspect of things to use **Pjen** ’s term. For example, a 0.22 to the back of the head, maybe even using a subsonic round, would do the trick with no mess (and the shooters wouldn’t even need to use hearing protectors ;)). My parenthetical comment and winky smiley above notwithstanding, I am totally serious with my question. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/10 "2014-05-17T18:15:54Z")
I can’t imagine that death by firing squad would be instantaneous or painless. Even if death was hypothetically supposed to happen via hydroshock rather than blood loss/absence of a heartbeat, fluid pressure bursting through every seam and wall has got to tickle a bit beyond the simple pedestrian pain of getting _stabbed right in the heart_ about a dozen times in rapid succession. If I were to chose an execution method for myself, I’d pick asphyxiation via laughing gas. Painless AND funny. Without my knowledge it’s happening if at all possible, because making one aware of one’s impending doom is probably the cruelest and most unusual thing you can do to a body. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/11 "2014-05-17T18:26:41Z")
Seems to me a vacuum chamber would be most humane. Lower the air pressure gradually, until the subject passes out, and keep going until their body has clearly failed irrecoverably. Not that execution actually accomplishes anything worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/12 "2014-05-17T19:00:39Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’d prefer guillotine to get the chance to know if I remained concious with my head seperated from my body for a few seconds before I die. Probably not. The dizzy feeling you get when you stand up too fast is caused by an abrupt drop of the blood pressure in your brain. My guess is, if that pressure suddenly drops to zero you will just as suddenly lose consciousness – you might live a few moments before final brain-death, but you won’t know it or experience it. Still, if I had to choose – guillotine! Guillotine! Guillotine! In a big public square! With crazy old ladies in the front row knitting! And a **drumroll!** 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/13 "2014-05-17T19:15:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Probably not. The dizzy feeling you get when you stand up too fast is caused by an abrupt drop of the blood pressure in your brain. My guess is, if that pressure suddenly drops to zero you will just as suddenly lose consciousness – you might live a few moments before final brain-death, but you won’t know it or experience it. > > Still, if I had to choose – guillotine! Guillotine! Guillotine! In a big public square! With crazy old ladies in the front row knitting! And a **drumroll!** 🆒 Ok, but as you realize, there are benefits to death by guillotine. It’s certainly a more dignified means of death than most other techniques. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/14 "2014-05-17T19:39:39Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Why limit the procedure to a firing squad, especially one composed of a half dozen or so people with high-powered rifles shooting from point blank range? Changing to a single head shot using a low velocity, hollow point bullet would eliminate (much of, or all) the “gruesome” aspect of things to use **Pjen** ’s term. > > For example, a 0.22 to the back of the head, maybe even using a subsonic round, would do the trick with no mess (and the shooters wouldn’t even need to use hearing protectors ;)). > > My parenthetical comment and winky smiley above notwithstanding, I am totally serious with my question. That was the Soviet method, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/15 "2014-05-17T19:44:48Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Ok, but as you realize, there are benefits to death by guillotine. It’s certainly a more dignified means of death than most other techniques. That’s only a benefit to the people watching. It’s designed to make it look better. If we really care that much about making it merciful (we don’t), then either a powerful gunshot or a shaped charge to the back of the head would destroy the brain effectively instantly. But that wouldn’t have the “dignified” look we are going for, we want it as neat and clinical as we can; looking as little like killing someone as possible. Mercy isn’t really much of a consideration, just appearances. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/16 "2014-05-17T19:52:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s only a benefit to the people watching. It’s designed to make it look better. No, I’d benefit from seeing all the pomp and circumstance focused on my death. Admittedly only for a short time, but as last thing I do it’s still preferable to the other methods. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/17 "2014-05-17T19:53:11Z")
Firing squad is fine with me. Simple, yet effective and reasonably merciful. Bon Jovi music during/after the procedure should be optional. _Shot through the heart And you’re to blame Darling, you give love a bad name…_ ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/18 "2014-05-17T20:23:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Still, if I had to choose – guillotine! Guillotine! Guillotine! In a big public square! With crazy old ladies in the front row knitting! And a **drumroll!** 🆒 Make sure you get them to make one of a special design that employs a gapped stack of thin concave wedges that will mesh into a similar structure at the bottom, so that your head will be launched out over the audience. That would be the awesome way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/19 "2014-05-17T20:40:01Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > That was the Soviet method, IIRC. The Nazis too, actually. I visited a concentration camp when I was a teenager (because European high schools are all about the mirth) - they had a concealed firing slit in the medical room. People would get in, get innocently weighed and bam. At the time it seemed barbaric, naturally, but in retrospect ? It \*was \*horrible to kill all these people machinally like that, but the fact that they didn’t know exactly what was going to happen was a tiny mercy. They probably suspected as much, obviously - after the third guy goes to the sick bay and never comes back word must have gotten around. But they didn’t know _exactly_, and presumably never knew precisely when either. That sets those poor people one step ahead of death row inmates. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637/20 "2014-05-17T22:13:48Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Why limit the procedure to a firing squad, especially one composed of a half dozen or so people with high-powered rifles shooting from point blank range? Changing to a single head shot using a low velocity, hollow point bullet would eliminate (much of, or all) the “gruesome” aspect of things to use **Pjen** ’s term. > > For example, a 0.22 to the back of the head, maybe even using a subsonic round, would do the trick with no mess (and the shooters wouldn’t even need to use hearing protectors ;)). > > My parenthetical comment and winky smiley above notwithstanding, I am totally serious with my question. One of the reasons is that a firing squad shares the guilt. As I understand it a random member of the squad was issued secretly with a blank cartridge , so no one would be sure if he had fired the fatal shot. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/judicial-killing-by-firing-squad/688637.md?page=2)