# Julia Gillard gets worst job in Australia **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 7, 2010, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905 "2010-09-07T09:35:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/1 "2010-09-07T09:35:35Z")
Anyone else glued to the TV at 3 this afternoon to see who was going to be paying a visit to the GG? I was pretty sure Wilson and Oakshotte were going to end up going with Labor (otherwise why would Katter have bombed out early to throw in his lot with the Coalition?) but I was still hooked on their every word. Which, of course, they were milking for all it’s worth (and good luck to 'em) My impressions: Wilson seems like a pretty sensible guy who will try to get as much for the country voters as possible without totally destabilising everything. Katter is a crazy loose cannon and Oakshotte is just standing there going “SHIT! how the hell did I end up here!!!” What do you guys think? [ETA: Link, for the Rest Of The World ™](http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/labor-over-the-line-windsor-and-oakeshott-hand-power-to-gillard-20100907-14you.html) ---
**Author:** ![firstname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ab992/32.png) [@firstname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/firstname)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/2 "2010-09-07T09:48:13Z")
It’s certainly been an interesting ride, I’m very curious to see if Rob Oakeshott will take the job he’s been offered (possibly a government minister for Gillard) that would make for an interesting parliament. I think Julia Gillard got the best possible outcome here; being able to form government without having the vote of Bob Katter, how Tony Abbott thought he was going to be able to deal with him is beyond my comprehension. It’s going to be a rough ride for the government and I expect we’ll be back to the polls before the 3 years are up. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/3 "2010-09-07T13:19:38Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > My impressions: Wilson seems like a pretty sensible guy who will try to get as much for the country voters as possible without totally destabilising everything. Katter is a crazy loose cannon and Oakshotte is just standing there going “SHIT! how the hell did I end up here!!!” That’s [Tony Windsor](http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/member.asp?id=9LP)BTW. 🙂 I suspect that Windsor and Wilkie might have the savvy and the noblesse oblige to make this hung parliament work. Oakshotte took 15 minutes of bizantine gooblegook at his press conference to state that he actually couldn’t make up his mind, but because he has to make a choice has gone with Julia because essentially she was there first. Makes you real confident that when an issue of national importance hits the radar that he’d be incapable of anything better than “scissors, paper, rock” to determine how he’d vote. Katter is the personification of an agrarian socialist, and is also more interested in Queensland than Australia. Bandt, well we know bugger all about him in a big picture sense but based on the approach of Green Senator Sarah Hanson-Young they have the look of pimply school kids who’ve just found they have the keys to the school tuck shop. I doubt Bob Brown will be able to keep them from getting hyperactive on red cordial for the parliamentary term. All very cute that Julia has won them over with promises of being inclusive and consultative when she was part of the ruling cabal that wouldn’t even consult Cabinet a couple of months ago. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/4 "2010-09-07T14:29:19Z")
I was half asleep at the time, but I’m sure I woke up this morning to something on the radio about Katter slagging Wilkie off for … something or other. But it seems every time I turn around he’s slagging off some member of parliament for something. And if he couldn’t even work with his two fellow independents to decide together who they were going to back for PM it doesn’t exactly bode well for getting him onside for pieces of important legislation. I suspect the government may have dodged a bullet there I think the wisest thing said in that news conference was Windsor (thanks **thule** ;)) observing that “Tony Abbot went to the polls with the Union movement’s Industrial Relations policy, and Julia Gillard went with the Coalition’s policy on illegal immigration.” I wonder if that dynamic will change now. And every time I see Adam Bandt, I just think “when did Andrew Denton get elected to parliament?” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/5 "2010-09-07T17:10:31Z")
Seeing as this is a minority government and the government needs every vote it can get is Labor still going to put one of their in the Speaker’s chair (thus losing their vote)? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/6 "2010-09-07T21:52:12Z")
At one stage during the schmoozing phase Kevin Rudd (with assistance of his squeeze Therese Rein) was making a serious play that Katter had more connection with Lab based on a personal bond from their days back in Queensland state parliament Wouldn’t that be a recipie for good governance … the Gillard government depending on the votes of Katter and Rudd? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/7 "2010-09-07T22:02:50Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Seeing as this is a minority government and the government needs every vote it can get is Labor still going to put one of their in the Speaker’s chair (thus losing their vote)? It’s split 76 - 74, and whilst the Speaker has no participation in debates they have the casting vote. The parliamentary reforms drafted by Oakshott and agreed by the parties is a system in which both the speaker and deputy speaker would not attend party meetings and would not vote, essentially acting as a pair which would preserve the 2 seat majority. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/8 "2010-09-08T00:09:13Z")
Well at least we still get the NBN. ---
**Author:** ![multimediac17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@multimediac17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/multimediac17)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/9 "2010-09-08T01:29:38Z")
I’m just glad it’s over, and that the right person (in my opinion) got the job. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/10 "2010-09-12T11:52:44Z")
Frankly, I think this whole debacle has proved that the electoral and political system in this country needs a major overhaul. There’s nothing in this election for anyone to feel proud of, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/11 "2010-09-12T12:34:00Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Well at least we still get the NBN. That would be the $6,000 per residence, paid for in taxes; plus $3,000 for in home connection NBN that no-one will bother connecting to that we would still have to pay access fees for, even though we paid for it? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/12 "2010-09-12T13:19:36Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Frankly, I think this whole debacle has proved that the electoral and political system in this country needs a major overhaul. There’s nothing in this election for anyone to feel proud of, IMHO. Tosh and nonsense. The people voted, we counted the votes. The candidates with the most votes won their electorates. No challenges in the Court of Disputed Returns. The party that cobbled together a majority of electorates took government. We have elected the most diverse parliament since, arguably WWII. We had, what 17 days, of post election caretaker government without civil unrest or even mild protest. Apart from high number of informal votes cast, what was there other than a highly commendable demonstration of democracy at work in a civil society?. Apart from your mob not winning, what is your specific beef? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/13 "2010-09-12T13:41:19Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Apart from your mob not winning, what is your specific beef? Lack of diversity in the candidates, the entire preferential voting system, the fact three people that 95%+ of the country didn’t even _get_ to vote for got to decide who the Government was , the lack of a “None Of The Above” option on the ballot paper… ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/14 "2010-09-12T23:52:42Z")
You really haven’t thought this out have you? From 150 electorates, 6 had 3 candidates, 32 had 4, 43 had 5 and 69 had 6 or more. That’s not diversity? 33 parties stood candidates, plus independents. If you want to have lots of parties capable of winning seats then your next gripe on minority governments and minor party balance of power becomes inevitiable. Look at Italy and Israel as examples. You really have a problem with anything but “first-past-the post” voting don’t you. Didn’t you claim previously that the MMP voting system was one of the reason you left NZ? Do you recall that the electoral reforms proposed by the Brits are a move from FPTP to some form of preferential voting? There are plenty of counties who have gone from FPTP to proportional/preferential. I can’t recall any that have gone the other way. It wasn’t three people, it was five, a Green and 4 independents who split 4-1. 66 thousand out of 13 million voted for Julia Gillard. You going to be consistent and claim she isn’t democratically elected? During the last term four people (Rudd, Gillard, Swan & Tanner) that 95% of the country didn’t vote for formed a cabal/kitchen cabinet that **RAN** the country. There was, and always is a “None of the above” option. It’s called informal voting and 5.55% of the national vote did that. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/15 "2010-09-13T02:52:17Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > From 150 electorates, 6 had 3 candidates, 32 had 4, 43 had 5 and 69 had 6 or more. > That’s not diversity? No, it’s not. Half the electorates basically had- “Labor, Liberal, Greens, Family First, and maybe Independent/Someone You’ve Never Heard Of” which is what most of the people I’ve spoken to boiled their candidate selection down to. > [@](#): > > 33 parties stood candidates, plus independents. If you want to have lots of parties capable of winning seats then your next gripe on minority governments and minor party balance of power becomes inevitiable. Look at Italy and Israel as examples. I’m all in favour of minor parties being represented in Parliament. What I’m not in favour of is them being Kingmakers or holding the balance of power. > [@](#): > > You really have a problem with anything but “first-past-the post” voting don’t you. Yes, I do. I think it’s the most reasonable way- person with the most direct votes wins. No prizes for coming second. You either get the most votes (and thus a seat in parliament) or you don’t, in which case better luck next time. > [@](#): > > Didn’t you claim previously that the MMP voting system was one of the reason you left NZ? Do you recall that the electoral reforms proposed by the Brits are a move from FPTP to some form of preferential voting? It was one of many reasons, but yes, MMP was one of the reasons I left NZ. That and the fact the country was becoming very touchy-feely was another significant factor. > [@](#): > > 66 thousand out of 13 million voted for Julia Gillard. You going to be consistent and claim she isn’t democratically elected? I’m not going to go quite that far, but I wouldn’t argue too strongly with anyone who did take that view. > [@](#): > > There was, and always is a “None of the above” option. It’s called informal voting and 5.55% of the national vote did that. Not quite. What I’d like to see is a “None Of The Above” option on the ballot, and if “None Of The Above” gets the most votes in that seat, then there has to be a by-election- with entirely new candidates. In fact, I’d like to see something similar when PMs or State Premiers are ousted or quit- instead of the Government just saying “OK, we’ve decided Joe Bloggs is now Premier”, _every_ eligible voter in the Country/State gets to vote for which of the Government’s candidates for the position (with a required minimum of, say, four candidates) they want in charge. FWIW, I’d also like to see Compulsory Voting abolished as well. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/16 "2010-09-13T09:15:52Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > No, it’s not. Half the electorates basically had- “Labor, Liberal, Greens, Family First, and maybe Independent/Someone You’ve Never Heard Of” which is what most of the people I’ve spoken to boiled their candidate selection down to. > > I’m all in favour of minor parties being represented in Parliament. What I’m not in favour of is them being Kingmakers or holding the balance of power. > . I don’t think you can have it both ways. Either there are very few, large parties which get a majority of the votes and can govern unsupported, or you get a large amount of diversity meaning lots of little parties who need to form coalitions in order to form a government. That would pretty much guarantee a small number of kingmakers - and also risk the result that two less popular parties agree to work together to form a government instead of the party that received the most votes. It would lead to a lot less predictability of the voting results. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julia-gillard-gets-worst-job-in-australia/552905/17 "2010-09-13T12:05:09Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’m all in favour of minor parties being represented in Parliament. What I’m not in favour of is them being Kingmakers or holding the balance of power. As GfM said, You can’t have a situation where a cluster of minor parties have sufficient support for them to get elected and then don’t allow them to exercise that elected power. The only people who’d play that game are those in it for the lurks, perks and freebies. > [@](#): > > if “None Of The Above” gets the most votes in that seat, then there has to be a by-election- with entirely new candidates. and what, do this … _ad infinitum_? And the cost of this indulgence is borne by who? The Democrats had this sort of feral democracy. 45(?) members could call for a leadership spill at anytime. There were more ex-chiefs than indians in their party room. Fat lot of good that did them. > [@](#): > > when PMs or State Premiers are ousted or quit- instead of the Government just saying “OK, we’ve decided Joe Bloggs is now Premier”, every eligible voter in the Country/State gets to vote for which of the Government’s candidates for the position (with a required minimum of, say, four candidates) they want in charge The Australian electors have had no say in who is the Prime Minister since Federation over a century ago. The position isn’t even a constitutional role. That has caused no difficulties and there is zero/zippo/zilch interest in changing it. We go with the majority party’s chosen head and if we don’t like them and/or the guy they chose to lead we chuck them all out. Put the onus where it belongs. You put in this fanciful notion and you’ll get a popularly elected PM who can’t command a majority in their own party room, let alone the HoR.