# Julian Assange and WikiLeaks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184 "2010-11-28T18:07:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/201 "2010-12-01T05:58:23Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > At this point in my life, I trust Assange to publish the truth far more than the NYT. Assange may actually prevent a war with Iran. Let’s see. It turns out that Arabs want to invade Iran and N Korea is supplying them with missiles. It seems to me that the case for invasion just got stronger. (It’s still a godawful idea though.) Manning should receive 40 years for his data dump and 1 year for his video whistleblowing. I exagerate, but the distinction remains valid. Assange has done the US a service by not simply passing on the information. He dumped the data on 5 news organizations who were better equipped to evaluate the security issues. Some of them took the lead of the NYT, which in turn has pretty close ties to the US foreign policy establishment. Assange in turn has published _nothing_ on his website that was not cleared by one of the 5 media ops. But let’s not miss the point. Only the most doe-eyed modern conservative could believe that arresting Assange could make the problem go away. That’s silly. Take away wikileaks and you take away a _filter_. It’s would be trivially easy for Private Troll to post the whole lot on usenet and Fed Ex the materials to 2600, Trotsky Today, The Conservative Batshit Chronicle and other publications lacking in discretion. This is a security challenge which requires more than conservative hysteria. Grow up, man up and face the world we live in. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/202 "2010-12-01T07:06:21Z")
[This is a link to what Defense Secretary Gates thinks about the WikiLeaks cables leak.](http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2010/11/quotable-secretary-gates-on-wi/) Here is a quote: > [@](#): > > Many governments – some governments deal with us because they fear us, some because they respect us, most because they need us. We are still essentially, as has been said before, the indispensable nation. So other nations will continue to deal with us. They will continue to work with us. We will continue to share sensitive information with one another. Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is it awkward? Yes. Consequences for U.S. foreign policy? I think fairly modest. So, all of you people who think this is terrible might want to explain your position to the Secretary of Defense. I’m certain he’ll be willing to listen to your informed opinions on how harmful this event has been. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/203 "2010-12-01T15:30:38Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > [This is a link to what Defense Secretary Gates thinks about the WikiLeaks cables leak.](http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2010/11/quotable-secretary-gates-on-wi/) > > Here is a quote:So, all of you people who think this is terrible might want to explain your position to the Secretary of Defense. I’m certain he’ll be willing to listen to your informed opinions on how harmful this event has been. Sounds like you haven’t learned a damn thing from these leaks. I wonder what he’s saying when he’s talking to Bill Lynn. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/204 "2010-12-01T15:32:24Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > It turns out that Arabs want to invade Iran and N Korea is supplying them with missiles. It seems to me that the case for invasion just got stronger. (It’s still a godawful idea though.) Yeah, I agree. Before I was totally against it but now that this fine example of a country like Saudi Arabia is on board, I`m going to go along too. Geez… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/205 "2010-12-01T15:36:47Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > [This is a link to what Defense Secretary Gates thinks about the WikiLeaks cables leak.](http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2010/11/quotable-secretary-gates-on-wi/) > > Here is a quote:So, all of you people who think this is terrible might want to explain your position to the Secretary of Defense. I’m certain he’ll be willing to listen to your informed opinions on how harmful this event has been. Sounds like you haven’t learned a damn thing from these leaks. I wonder what he’s saying when he’s talking to Bill Lynn. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/206 "2010-12-01T15:41:31Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Yeah, I agree. Before I was totally against it but now that this fine example of a country like Saudi Arabia is on board, I`m going to go along too. Geez… Or to put it in more meaningful terms, the invasion would be well received by Saudi Arabia, worlds largest oil producer, and a country that even the most hawkish of tacticians does not want to piss off. So yes, that revelation\* does make invasion a more likely bet. - and by revelation I mean something that everyone already knew anyway, but know they know we know they know. And we know Iran knows that we know that they know that we know. It all has to be considered. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/207 "2010-12-01T15:45:30Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Well, I suppose it’s progress of a sort. You’ve at least acknowledged that the problem goes beyond an idiot PFC and an attention whore with a website. That’s good. > > As stated repeatedly, Assange has no responsibility to the US, so only a complete fool would think there’s much you can do other than have him offed. It’d be a fairly stupid thing to do from a political point of view, but meh. The PFC is fucked, and so he should be. You shouldn’t do something like that and expect to walk away from it. > > What you should be a fuckload more concerned about though isn’t either of these people. It’s the fuckwits you’ve got in charge of your military and government data. If you leave something wide open and unprotected, you can expect people to piss about. Trying to play the problem down by saying that “just because millions may have access to the _network_ doesn’t mean that they have access to _every document available_ on the network” is missing the point in spectacular style. It’s quite clear from this incident that there are low ranking people on your network who can access huge amounts of data they have no need to, without that access being flagged. If you’ve got such glaringly massive issues as this open, care to bet what problems there are that can be exploited by a nation with proper resources? > > Let me again try to put this in context for you. China has for the last 4 years been trying to hack information from Oil companies, Google, and other such sources. They were caught because these companies take data security seriously (not too surprising considering just how much value companies like this have to place on their data). Do you really feel that similar attacks won’t be going on against your military and political data? Does this incident here give you confidence that these systems are well protected? Huh? I’m not sure where we disagree, except maybe on what we can/shold do with Assange, which I will get to. You seem to think I’m of the mind that we simply lock up the PFC, lock up or kill Assange, and every thing is hunky dory. No, that’s not my opinion at all. While I think those things should be and need to be done—quickly—even more important is securing restricted information in a serious way. Like the two companies you mention. But that does not mean that Assange and that little punk PFC don’t deserve both the scorn I heap upon them or great retribution. I don’t know where you get the idea that my plan begins and ends with Assange and that little fem prick. As far as taking action against Assange, he has made himself an enemy of the United States. To me, he should be treated just as if he was sniping at your soldiers, or actively aiding the enemy. Because he is. Obama should put a target on that guy’s head, just as he has with that imam, whose name I can’t recall right now. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/208 "2010-12-01T15:50:02Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Or to put it in more meaningful terms, the invasion would be well received by Saudi Arabia, worlds largest oil producer, and a country that even the most hawkish of tacticians does not want to piss off. > > So yes, that revelation\* does make invasion a more likely bet. > > - and by revelation I mean something that everyone already knew anyway, but know they know we know they know. And we know Iran knows that we know that they know that we know. It all has to be considered. I hope you are not suggesting that Saudis control their oil because Asange did not expect that the readership would be that naive… or, you do think they can do with their oil what they want? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/209 "2010-12-01T16:04:35Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > and that little fem prick. You _are_ a disgusting piece of work, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/210 "2010-12-01T16:09:42Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > I hope you are not suggesting that Saudis control their oil because Asange did not expect that the readership would be that naive… or, you do think they can do with their oil what they want? You know I’ve now read this statement a good 4 or 5 times, and I still don’t have a clue what the hell you’re trying to say here? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/211 "2010-12-01T16:23:43Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > You know I’ve now read this statement a good 4 or 5 times, and I still don’t have a clue what the hell you’re trying to say here? Saudis ruling class is being maintained in life by US and few other countries (UK and France) which means that oil they have is not managed by Saudis which means the threat from Iran is not to the ruling class or even to the people of SA but to the oil interest. So, when Saudis call for attack on Iran it`s kinda hollow and prepped … get it? Of course, if you hold a view that Saudis are independent and carry themselves as a free nation, then, yeah, in such a World there is a merit in what they`re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/212 "2010-12-01T19:29:56Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Sounds like you haven’t learned a damn thing from these leaks. I wonder what he’s saying when he’s talking to Bill Lynn. Maybe the third time you fling this turd it might stick to something. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/213 "2010-12-01T20:20:08Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Saudis ruling class is being maintained in life by US and few other countries (UK and France) which means that oil they have is not managed by Saudis which means the threat from Iran is not to the ruling class or even to the people of SA but to the oil interest. So, when Saudis call for attack on Iran it`s kinda hollow and prepped … get it? > > Of course, if you hold a view that Saudis are independent and carry themselves as a free nation, then, yeah, in such a World there is a merit in what they`re saying. One day, I’m going to allocate a portion of my hideous wealth\* to sponsoring the crew of Sesame Street to do a “World politics for beginners” routine. Those guys are good - they can explain letters and numbers to children. They’ve got to be the best bet for trying to explain realpolitik to the guileless. Yes, the House of Saud has long been propped up by the west. We’ve gone so far as to sell them shitloads of fairly potent weaponry of all types - planes, missiles, tanks, you name it. But we need their oil, and we’re fucking terrified that the worlds largest producer might be controlled by the same sort of leadership as Iran, so there’s no fucking way whatsoever that the West has that much leverage over them. But what we might well do, for example, is invade one of the other big oil producers there - particularly if Saud has indicated they think it’s a good idea for their reasons. Why then, we’ve got Iraq and Iran. That’s enough to keep us well supplied for at least 20+ years. Seriously, this shit would be so much easier if we were just prepared to embrace the role of being the bad guys. We wouldn’t have to pretend that we were liberating people. We could wear funky black uniforms. Our leaders could work on their evil dictator laughs, sip brandy and stroke cats. Way more fun than the current level of pretense. - technically true. My last bank statement was damned ugly. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/214 "2010-12-01T22:02:51Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Maybe the third time you fling this turd it might stick to something. This is so frustrating. When your debating adversary is satisfied with such a tepid and stupid comeback.- ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/215 "2010-12-01T22:43:25Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > This is so frustrating. > > When your debating adversary is satisfied with such a tepid and stupid comeback.- You should probably work on making your arguments worthy of real refutation? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/216 "2010-12-01T22:58:51Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > You should probably work on making your arguments worthy of real refutation? That wasn’t an argument **Derleth** that you responded to so tepidly. It was an OBSERVATION. It really helps to know the difference. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/217 "2010-12-02T01:03:09Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > The fiasco of waiting for the anticipated forced nudification of the American government and military by one citizen against the best interests of the 300,000,000+ strong collective is just too much to bear. Just for the record, how do you feel about minority government using filibusters to block things the majority wants? ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/218 "2010-12-02T03:13:32Z")
**The Second Stone** , I think your comprehension of data security in classified environments is a bit weak. Granted, it’s not always perfect - actually, it’s never perfect. But having access to SIPRNet or one of its subnets, or even something at a higher level of classification, doesn’t mean that you have the keys to the kingdom. It’s all based on the Bell-LaPadula model of data control, and is what most private industry aspires to. Not perfect, but the best we’ve got so far. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/219 "2010-12-02T03:43:10Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Just for the record, how do you feel about minority government using filibusters to block things the majority wants? I don’t know why this is relevant to the thread, but I certainly won’t give up an opportunity to denounce the practice as actually anti-democratic. Why do you ask ? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/220 "2010-12-02T08:16:36Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The US has abused its power as a world leader for too long, and as long as Republicans exist, it’ll continue. Wow, really? Quick, who’s the Commander in Chief of the U.S. military right now? For the past 2 years? Some black guy. Colin Powell? No… > [@George\_Kaplin](#): > > I have a question, for those applauding Assange’s actions; how would you feel about him if _he_ and not the Bush Administration, had ‘outed’ Valerie Plame? I seem to remember a great many people on these boards calling for Cheney’s head over that little stunt… That’d be a net positive. The CIA is a terrorist organization. For Cheney, a lot of that was definitely coming from the serious statist types in the Dem party. But from below you’re looking at in your face irony. Like when it turns out the anti-gay preachers like to suck cocks. The people pointing this out and laughing aren’t making fun of gay people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=12)