# Julian Assange and WikiLeaks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184 "2010-11-28T18:07:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/21 "2010-11-28T20:50:59Z")
Interesting. I completely disagree. What attempts have been made, via legislation, to make routine diplomatic communications public record? We should just skip that altogether and endorse anarchy? This shit isn’t going to work twice. Now we’ll have an overhaul regarding how this data is handled…more taxpayer money down the shitter. Further complicating this picture is going to be an inability to get quality people to take these jobs. It’s shortsighted and really not for any greater good I can see. I feel the need to again add that I favor exposing actual abuse and corruption. But this is just a waste of time and money. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/22 "2010-11-28T20:51:04Z")
[Wikileaks under “mass distributed denial of service attack.”](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11858637) ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/23 "2010-11-28T20:51:23Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > So it’s perfectly OK if that’s achieved by government employees stealing data and giving it to some random guy in Australia? It’s not the best solution. However, the guy who turned over the information has to know he’ll be found out eventually. The last one was, after all. So, he seemed to be willing to pay the price. He thought it was worth it. Is it the best way to do it? Absolutely not. However, if the last 50 years have taught us anything, it’s that the government is all too willing to hide anything and everything, strictly out of habit. If it’s painful to break that habit, then let’s get it over with. > [@BlankSlate](#): > > This shit isn’t going to work twice. Now we’ll have an overhaul regarding how this data is handled…more taxpayer money down the shitter. Further complicating this picture is going to be an inability to get quality people to take these jobs. It’s shortsighted and really not for any greater good I can see. > > I feel the need to again add that I favor exposing actual abuse and corruption. But this is just a waste of time and money. Improving our information security is a waste of time and money? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/24 "2010-11-28T21:07:08Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Oh please. > > If you are comfortable with one individual being able to affect US foreign policy against the wishes of elected and appointed government officials, then all the more power to the adversaries of the US government elected to represent the people of the United States. > … > It is not inconceivable that Julian Assange may have more negative impact on the world than Osama bin Laden. If one dude with a laptop can really screw us that hard, maybe we need to re-examine the whole thing. (That’s a gross oversimplification, as Wikileaks is a fairly large organization AFAIK, but that’s how it’s being portrayed.) If Wikileaks weren’t there, there would still be someone on the inside willing to hand over information, and there would be plenty of other people willing to take it–most likely people who want to do us harm. So the choice is not between secrets staying secrets vs. secrets getting out via Wikileaks; it’s secrets getting out via Wikileaks vs. secrets getting out only to our enemies. I maintain that we’re safer with such information out in the open. It’s much harder to keep secrets in the information age. That means the government has to think pretty hard about what they’re willing to go to the trouble over, and that’s as it should be. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/25 "2010-11-28T21:13:42Z")
So essentially this is happening because it can. Should every strategy discussion between two diplomats be recorded and released automatically? What if they speak softly? Should we require them to wear recording devices inside their mouths? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/26 "2010-11-28T21:16:30Z")
Sounds like a plan to me. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/27 "2010-11-28T21:21:22Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Sounds like a plan to me. So you would favor legislation mandating every single non-classified communication between government officials (voice in person, voice over phone, all written material, all electronic data) be available to the public? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/28 "2010-11-28T21:22:51Z")
And bug their homes. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/29 "2010-11-28T21:28:43Z")
Don’t forget their pets. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/30 "2010-11-28T21:33:56Z")
Well as enjoyable as this hyperbole is, maybe governments should operate under similar adage to the internet saying “don’t put anything on the internet you wouldn’t want the whole world to know”. Or as another poster said “don’t suck cocks if you don’t want to be known as a cock sucker”. Personally invasive recording devices aren’t needed, but maybe diplomats and government types should to live as though they’re present, because what they do will get out. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/31 "2010-11-28T21:37:22Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > What is the point of any ally sharing with the US when their input might as well be published in a newspaper. It’s not like our _government_ hesitates to use or reveal information gained from an “ally” to their detriment. Only a fool regards America as an ally. America only has tools and victims, not allies. > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > What is the point of any citizen going undercover for their country if their country can’t guarantee their cover. Their country doesn’t care about them anyway, and is unworthy of loyalty in the first place. Loyalty to their own is not an American cultural trait. > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > How can the US play any diplomatic role when there is simply no privacy in their negotiations. How can it play a diplomatic role when it has repeatedly demonstrated its complete untrustworthiness? Not to mention thuggishness. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/32 "2010-11-28T21:38:56Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Personally invasive recording devices aren’t needed, but maybe diplomats and government types should to live as though they’re present, because what they do will get out. No, it won’t get out. This shit isn’t going to work repeatedly. Unless transparency is required then government will adapt. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/33 "2010-11-28T22:27:26Z")
You know what - I’m largely in favour of Wikileaks’s ethos, but the cavalier manner in which Assange is posting this _particular_ data is pretty worrying, and could have globally negative consequences. To take just one [example](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-saudis-iran): Saudi Arabia urges US attack on Iran to stop nuclear programme • Embassy cables show Arab allies want strike against Tehran • Israel prepared to attack alone to avoid its own 9/11 That revelation alone could completely destabilise the extremely delicate situation between Iran and the middle east. This kind of shit can lead to fucking wars. Diplomacy requires a great deal of secrecy; sure, it feels undemocratic to have that level of prevarication, but it’s necessary and normal, and _diplomatic_ not to be totally transparent. Assange is starting to make me feel a little queasy. I also think someone’s going to off him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/34 "2010-11-28T22:28:06Z")
I just hope that the US cable from some low level diplomat describing Kim Jong II as an impotent clown is overlooked. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/35 "2010-11-28T22:40:29Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > No, it won’t get out. This shit isn’t going to work repeatedly. Unless transparency is required then government will adapt. That’s an asinine statement. That’s like saying every nation may as well go ahead and skip having spies - after all, anything that has worked previously will never work again. Apparently innovation doesn’t exist, either. So…why bother? Even if you were right, which you aren’t (see above asinine statement), it should then be viewed as a good thing, as someone is demonstrating holes in the intelligence services and is exposing them via random communications documents rather than recordings of the really sensitive stuff. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/36 "2010-11-28T22:51:08Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > That’s an asinine statement. That’s like saying every nation may as well go ahead and skip having spies - after all, anything that has worked previously will never work again. Apparently innovation doesn’t exist, either. So…why bother? > > Even if you were right, which you aren’t (see above asinine statement), it should then be viewed as a good thing, as someone is demonstrating holes in the intelligence services and is exposing them via random communications documents rather than recordings of the really sensitive stuff. > > -Joe Jesus, are you that fucking dumb or just morally bankrupt? We’re talking about the illegal manipulation of government data. If you want it released, get a fucking law passed. Wikileaks is for spoiled children who want what they want any way they can get it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/37 "2010-11-28T22:53:22Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > If you want it released, get a fucking law passed. :rolleyes: Yeah, right, like the government would ever do such a thing to itself. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/38 "2010-11-28T22:58:09Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > There must be some provision in the US Constitution that would allow for Assange’s arrest and prevention of the publication. In fact, there is a provision in the U.S. Constitution that prevents prevention of publication, as the Supreme Court decided in a remarkably verbose 6-3 decision re the Pentagon Papers. (All nine justices wrote opinions.) Prior restraint of publication is an extremely high hurdle to jump. The court did not rule that Ellsberg, the Post, or the Times could not be prosecuted after the fact, however. Only Ellsberg was prosecuted, and he was acquitted by mistrial, and not retried. (Interestingly, the group assembled for the burglary of Ellsberg’s psychiatrist’s office later morphed into the Watergate burglars.) > [@Simplicio](#): > > Assange isn’t a US citizen. He’s an Aussie living (and currently imprisoned, IIRC) in Sweden. Assange is not in Sweden, but is under investigation and has an active arrest warrant from Sweden. Further, in the past couple of decades, the U.S. has shown a marked lack of interest in the citizenship or location of people it wishes to try. Just ask Manuel Noriega or Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/39 "2010-11-28T23:56:57Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Jesus, are you that fucking dumb or just morally bankrupt? We’re talking about the illegal manipulation of government data. I know you probably don’t have a brush cut, wear wayfarer frames and a pit-stained short-sleeve white button-down, and didn’t shout this into the mouthpiece of a lime green rotary phone, but it sure is funnier when I imagine it that way. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/40 "2010-11-29T00:17:01Z")
That’s hilarious, damn you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=3)