# Julian Assange and WikiLeaks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184 "2010-11-28T18:07:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/41 "2010-11-29T00:26:25Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > one citizen against the best interests of the 300,000,000+ strong collective How can you possibly know that it’s in all of our best interests for all of this stuff to be hidden away from our knowing? Do you get your certitude from the same source which was plumbed so profitably to bring about our expensive and pointless conquest of Iraq? It sure seems like you _literally_ pulled that self-righteous outrage right out of your ass. And what’s up with talk of the ‘collective’ anyway? Are you a communist or a socialist or something? Your words make me suspicious of you. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/42 "2010-11-29T00:35:47Z")
Julian Assange is an optimist. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/43 "2010-11-29T00:47:08Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You know what - I’m largely in favour of Wikileaks’s ethos, but the cavalier manner in which Assange is posting this _particular_ data is pretty worrying, and could have globally negative consequences. > > To take just one [example](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-saudis-iran): > > Saudi Arabia urges US attack on Iran to stop nuclear programme > • Embassy cables show Arab allies want strike against Tehran > • Israel prepared to attack alone to avoid its own 9/11 > > That revelation alone could completely destabilise the extremely delicate situation between Iran and the middle east. This kind of shit can lead to fucking wars. No, attacking another country without provocation, and at the behest of a 3rd country, is what leads to wars. _If_ this led to a war, it’s highly unlikely that it would involve anyone but Iran and Saudi Arabia, and if that happens, well, fuck them both. Saudia Arabia clearly wanted a war with Iran, but without having to use their own resources. And I have no great affection for Iran, so if some other country wants to try and kick their ass: good luck. But keeping it all a secret? That’s what makes people say, after the war starts, “gee, why did this happen?” And _that_ lets the people in charge start lying to the populace about why they’re at war. Which can only lead to future suffering, as no one is really dealing with reality, only with dark fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/44 "2010-11-29T00:49:30Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > And what’s up with talk of the ‘collective’ anyway? > Are you a communist or a socialist or something? No, Borg. When you are assimilated and become part of the Collective you will understand. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/45 "2010-11-29T01:18:55Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You know what - I’m largely in favour of Wikileaks’s ethos, but the cavalier manner in which Assange is posting this _particular_ data is pretty worrying, and could have globally negative consequences. > > To take just one [example](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-saudis-iran): > > Saudi Arabia urges US attack on Iran to stop nuclear programme > • Embassy cables show Arab allies want strike against Tehran > • Israel prepared to attack alone to avoid its own 9/11 This stuff was pretty widely reported prior to the leaks using anonymous sources. It didn’t cause a war then, it won’t now. Even with no reporting, I doubt Iran is under any illusions about its popularity with the various Sunni Muslim and Jewish gov’ts in the region. > [@](#): > > Assange is starting to make me feel a little queasy. I also think someone’s going to off him. I think a measure of how insignificant the current leaks are is how much of the reporting and discussion have focused on Assange rather then on the actual content of the cables. Assange’s contribution to this story has been that he A) took some files someone gave him and B) put those files on the internet. He’s not exactly irreplaceable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/46 "2010-11-29T01:20:05Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > How can you possibly know that it’s in all of our best interests for all of this stuff to be hidden away from our knowing? How can you know that it is in the best interest of your country. All it takes is one scintilla of information to compromise a foreign policy, which normally is delicate enough. Is it in the best interest of a football team to make their playbook public ? Get real. > [@](#): > > And what’s up with talk of the ‘collective’ anyway? > Are you a communist or a socialist or something? > Your words make me suspicious of you. So what. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/47 "2010-11-29T01:25:50Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > How can you know that it is in the best interest of your country. All it takes is one scintilla of information to compromise a foreign policy, which normally is delicate enough. Maybe in light of US history I think inducing some transparency and accountability in my country’s government would be in it’s ultimate best interest, regardless of whether it does so willingly or kicking and screaming. How might the Bush Treason worked out if we the people better knew what the incompetent deceptive asshat was up to? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/48 "2010-11-29T01:46:05Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > For a second there I thought you were talking about Valerie Plame. She was my first thought when I heard the ‘These leaks will endanger our operatives and soldiers’ argument. I no longer buy that argument as a result. > [@Merijeek](#): > > Are you Teabagger, or just Teabagger-curious? > > “I don’t like it, therefore there must be something in the Constitution against it!” Unless I mis-recall, the OP is in Canada, so that would be Teabagger-wannabe. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/49 "2010-11-29T01:53:33Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Unless I mis-recall, the OP is in Canada, so that would be Teabagger-wannabe. The OP is Canadian. For some reason, at least on the SDMB, conservative Canadians seem to be very much more interested in U.S. politics than liberal Canadians are. Taking lessons, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/50 "2010-11-29T01:55:46Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Unless I mis-recall, the OP is in Canada, so that would be Teabagger-wannabe. Yea, I’m a communist teabagger wannabe :rolleyes: Waiting for Godwin to get involved. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/51 "2010-11-29T01:57:44Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The OP is Canadian. For some reason, at least on the SDMB, conservative Canadians seem to be very much more interested in U.S. politics than liberal Canadians are. Taking lessons, perhaps. Conserevative ? No way . I’m a socialist. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/52 "2010-11-29T01:59:06Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Conserevative ? > > No way . > > I’m a socialist. Your posting history indicates otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/53 "2010-11-29T01:59:27Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > How can you know that it is in the best interest of your country. If I can’t know, then you sure as hell can’t, as at least I was smart enough to know that a pre-emptive invasion of Iraq was a stupid waste of time, lives (mostly Iraqi civilians, unfortunately), and resources. And for fuck’s sake, I actually am a citizen of the country in question, so, while foreigners like yourself have every right to speak your mind, you certainly have no right to speak for me. > [@](#): > > Is it in the best interest of a football team to make their playbook public ? When the decisions of a football coach start costing tens or hundreds of thousands of lives, then it might be a good analogy. Nah, it would still suck. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/54 "2010-11-29T02:01:16Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Your posting history indicates otherwise. Shouldn’t be too hard to prove it. I’m calling bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/55 "2010-11-29T02:12:59Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > All it takes is one scintilla of information to compromise a foreign policy, which normally is delicate enough. Past 10 years or so, US foreign policy has sucked donkey balls, and has not been conducted in the interest of _most_ Americans. Where did you ever get the idea that **government is your friend**? Or is it just that the torturing warmongering bastards who ran the US much of this past decade are your friends, and you don’t want to see them embarassed? Just grit your teeth, and think of the release discomfitting the Kenyan socialist in chief **too** , as well as decreasing our collective confidence in big Government. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/56 "2010-11-29T02:16:48Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Shouldn’t be too hard to prove it. > > I’m calling bullshit. I see no point in taking the time. You’ve been a dishonest poster who has fought for ignorance ever since I remember you. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/57 "2010-11-29T03:35:41Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The US is in no position to do anything about Assange. Far from it. They wouldn’t dare touch him now. I don’t think this is correct at all. As long as there is sufficient plausible deniability he could meet with a sticky end. I don’t think it matters, though (except in the personal sense). Assange is just a guy doing something that is now easy to do: if he and Wikileaks vanish, that won’t halt the simple fact that in the Information Age if someone decides to leak they will be able to spread information far and wide regardless of attempts by government to stop them. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/58 "2010-11-29T03:49:52Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > How can you know that it is in the best interest of your country. All it takes is one scintilla of information to compromise a foreign policy, which normally is delicate enough. Exactly. Why is why Cheney should have died in front of a firing squad years ago, right? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/59 "2010-11-29T03:59:15Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Exactly. Why is why Cheney should have died in front of a firing squad years ago, right? > > -Joe No, don’t you know that VPs can suddenly decide that important secrets suddenly don’t need to be secret anymore (especially if they have a personal vendetta against someone), and therefore, no harm? It’s one of their constitutional duties or something. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/60 "2010-11-29T04:07:08Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > No, don’t you know that VPs can suddenly decide that important secrets suddenly don’t need to be secret anymore (especially if they have a personal vendetta against someone), and therefore, no harm? It’s one of their constitutional duties or something. I forgot. Anything any Teabagger (Teabagger-Curious, or Teabagger-Wannabe) wishes was in the Constitution has got to be in there somewhere. I’m pretty sure it says somewhere that Democrats can’t actually be elected. -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=4)