# Julian Assange and WikiLeaks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184 "2010-11-28T18:07:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/61 "2010-11-29T04:07:09Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Exactly. Why is why Cheney should have died in front of a firing squad years ago, right? > > -Joe Well, fired at least. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/62 "2010-11-29T04:08:56Z")
I knew there were some really dumb mother fuckers on this site, but this thread takes the cake. Sure, we can all agree that more transparency is better than less, and that many of these documents needn’t be kept secret. And EVEN that some good may come by revealing some of those that ARE classified as secret. But surely even the dumbest among you (whew) can entertain the notion that there are _some_ documents that serve the interests of the U.S., it’s allies, and/or some poor shlubs in third world countries. It it nothing short of amazing that dumbbells in this thread actually advocate that one person should be allowed to subvert the collective will of the people and make decisions that we elected THEM to do. Especially since we live in a country where you get to vote in the people who think like you. A good chunk of you are not only stupendously stupid and shortsighted, but morally bankrupt. Can you not envision secrets that YOU would agree **should** be kept confidential? Perhaps some documents created at the behest of Obama that he thinks will help bring the war to end sooner. Or documents having to do with diplomacy that might prevent the next war? And if you can’t, too fucking bad. Use the voting booth and the courts to get your way. And if you can’t, maybe—just MAYBE, you dumb motherfuckers—what YOU think isn’t such a good idea. As far as Assange, my guess is that he’ll be killed. And not a nanosecond too soon. Not by us, but by some instrument of someone he’s embarrassed or endangered. and whoever offs that scumbag should get the Medal of Honor. Assange is an enemy of democracy and the world, and of the U.S. in particular. Put me in proximity with him and give me a gun and I’d GLADLY do it. He’s endangering every one of our soldiers and diplomats. Yeah, Diplomats, you know, the guys who we send abroad to keep relations good so there are less conflicts in the world?! Unbeliavable. Fuck the lot of you. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/63 "2010-11-29T04:14:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Fuck the lot of you. TLDRPBM. Consider this a version of “Grab them by their balls and their hearts and minds will follow.” I’m sure you’ve jerked off over that phrase more than once. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/64 "2010-11-29T04:35:16Z")
As one of the posters here whose opinion is reliably disconnected from reality, your post on this topic is invaluable, **magellan**. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/65 "2010-11-29T04:38:30Z")
At least some of the motherfuckers know who they are. And no rebuttal to my points. How shocking. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/66 "2010-11-29T04:54:29Z")
I think this will turn out to be not nearly as bad as the US government says it will. Just like the last major leak, it was suggested that all hell would break loose due to Wikileaks’ actions. That appears not to have happened. And if it was only a few lives at risk, then that’s something that needs to be weighed against transparency on a case by case basis. Note that decisions of other people have put not only thousands of soldiers lives at risk, but actually resulted in the direct and confirmed deaths of thousands of soldiers _and_ civilians, for reasons which have never been adequately explained or justified. And yet, I doubt **magellan01** wants to shoot former President Bush. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/67 "2010-11-29T05:07:47Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > I think this will turn out to be not nearly as bad as the US government says it will. Just like the last major leak, it was suggested that all hell would break loose due to Wikileaks’ actions. That appears not to have happened. And if it was only a few lives at risk, then that’s something that needs to be weighed against transparency on a case by case basis. I agree with that last line. But Assange did not do this, nor does he have the right to make that judgement. > [@BlackKnight](#): > > Note that decisions of other people have put not only thousands of soldiers lives at risk, but actually resulted in the direct and confirmed deaths of thousands of soldiers _and_ civilians, for reasons which have never been adequately explained or justified. And yet, I doubt **magellan01** wants to shoot former President Bush. While I’m not a fan of the man and never voted for him, no, I don’t want him shot. I want him out of office. And I got my wish. The difference is that Bush was elected to act on our behalf. Assange, not. ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/68 "2010-11-29T05:33:30Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > ^ > > This is how I feel, too. If something that my country is doing or wants to do can’t stand up to the scrutiny of the people who are being asked (or forced, depending on your perspective) to pay for it, then it prolly shouldn’t be done. We should also have published the development plans for the A-bomb in the newspapers. That way, we wouldn’t have had to feel dirty about hiding anything - it’s not like the enemy would have used our own research against us. Fuckin’ idiot. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/69 "2010-11-29T05:35:02Z")
I don’t see how the elected part has any meaning. It’s not like we elect people based on how well they deal with secret information. How could we–it’s secret. The only way for us to know that the information was legitimately hidden is to read the information. And, as far as I know Assange makes no decisions whatsoever–he just publishes what he is given. It’s the government official that leaked it to him that made a decision. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/70 "2010-11-29T05:42:14Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > We should also have published the development plans for the A-bomb in the newspapers. That way, we wouldn’t have had to feel dirty about hiding anything - it’s not like the enemy would have used our own research against us. > > Fuckin’ idiot. I think you overestimate how much of the problem was an information one. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/71 "2010-11-29T06:34:24Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > We should also have published the development plans for the A-bomb in the newspapers. That way, we wouldn’t have had to feel dirty about hiding anything - it’s not like the enemy would have used our own research against us. > > Fuckin’ idiot. As **BigT** implies, I’m pretty sure that the government of every country (and many individuals that probably number in the millions) know how to make an atomic bomb. Actual implementation, on the other hand, is hard. I know how microprocessors work, but I wouldn’t even attempt to build an ancient 4004 at home, and comparing that to a modern processor is like comparing a kid’s cap gun to an Oralloy thermonuclear warhead. Hell, just cutting the Rubylith would be an exercise in futility. If you feel like giving it a shot, [here](http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/General/4004_schematic.pdf) is the schematic (warning: PDF). Besides, is there anyone in this thread who has argued that a government shouldn’t maintain any secrecy whatsoever? I’m not sure who you and **magellan01** are pissing your pants about, but it sure isn’t me. Heck, I’m not even sure if it is Assange, as even he acknowledges that there are legitimate secrets that should remain that way. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/72 "2010-11-29T06:42:52Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > We should also have published the development plans for the A-bomb in the newspapers. That way, we wouldn’t have had to feel dirty about hiding anything - it’s not like the enemy would have used our own research against us. > > Fuckin’ idiot. Hey, learn to read for comprehension, moron. “Prolly shouldn’t be done”. That means “maybe should be done, if certain conditions are met”. Fuckin’ clueless knee-jerk asshole. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/73 "2010-11-29T06:45:02Z")
As an example of just how widespread this sort of information is, [this was an interesting little experiment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nth_Country_Experiment). I’m pretty sure Wikileaks wasn’t around in 1964. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/74 "2010-11-29T06:51:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The difference is that Bush was elected to act on our behalf. Assange, not. Aren’t you being a little pre-emptive here? The supreme court has not yet been called in on Assange, much less ruled on whether we elected him to carry out our will, or not. Your reckless assertion _could_ be doing irreperable harm to Assange’s reputation, [in a never to be construed as precedent setting kind of way.](http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/75 "2010-11-29T07:00:45Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Shouldn’t be too hard to prove it. > > I’m calling bullshit. You’re a fucking liar and as conservative as Thatcher, you fucking asshole. Did you think I’d forget about this thread, where you lied for almost 500 posts? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=494491&highlight=free+choice](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=494491&highlight=free+choice) And now you got caught lying twice by me. Run and tell that home home homeboy. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/76 "2010-11-29T10:45:47Z")
Assange has every right to do this. He’s not a U.S. citizen, he’s not a traitor and the U.S. has no right to expect secret information released to foreign entities to remain secret. **That’s how it’s always fucking worked**. Whether or not you think it’s in U.S. interest is entirely irrelevant. The person who leaked the information will presumably be found and convicted. And who is naive enough to think that the CIA and other foreign intelligence services don’t get hold of information like this fairly frequently? The only difference is that they keep it to themseleves and use it directly against their enemies rather than exposing it to the light of public scrutiny. For all you know Iran or (more likely) China could have all of this information already. It is to the benefit of the world that information like this is publicly released so that people can see what their governments do in their name. I would prefer it if the transparency was extended to cover the UK, Russia and China etc. so that it was more difficult for governments to lie to their own citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/77 "2010-11-29T11:20:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yeah, Diplomats, you know, the guys who we send abroad to keep relations good so there are less conflicts in the world?! I don’t think you have a firm grasp of what diplomats do, or what diplomacy entails. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/78 "2010-11-29T11:47:05Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Assange isn’t a US citizen. He’s an Aussie living (and currently imprisoned, IIRC) in Sweden. > [@Frank](#): > > Assange is not in Sweden, but is under investigation and has an active arrest warrant from Sweden. He tried to move to Sweden because he thought Swedish laws regarding freedom of the press would make him immune from prosecution. As it happened he was not granted permission to move here, which immediately made people shout out loud that it was a result of the USA twisting the arms of Swedish authorities. With my understanding of Swedish immigration laws I can’t see any grounds for letting him immigrate just like that: 1) He has no family or other ties with the country, 2) He does not have an employment in the country, 3) He is not the victim of persecution in Australia (there may be other reasons as well, but I think these will do). The arrest warrant has nothing to do with Wikileaks. It’s because he had sex with two different women who somehow got cold feet and accused him of rape. I have absolutely no knowledge of the actual circumstances, but the warrant is because he has left the country and refuses to be questioned by Swedish police. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/79 "2010-11-29T12:17:09Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Saudi Arabia urges US attack on Iran to stop nuclear programme > • Embassy cables show Arab allies want strike against Tehran > • Israel prepared to attack alone to avoid its own 9/11 > > That revelation alone could completely destabilise the extremely delicate situation between Iran and the middle east. This kind of shit can lead to fucking wars. You know what else can lead to wars? _Trying to talk people into attacking other countries._ ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/80 "2010-11-29T12:17:15Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t think you have a firm grasp of what diplomats do, or what diplomacy entails. Coccaine, blackjack and hookers right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=5)