# Julian Assange and WikiLeaks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184 "2010-11-28T18:07:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/81 "2010-11-29T12:56:17Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You know what else can lead to wars? _Trying to talk people into attacking other countries._ Kind of like Abu Ghraib. The problem wasn’t what was done, or that some inbred low-IQ soldiers went ahead and were careless because they took pictures. No, the fault lied with people who had dared expose them. Damned traitors! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/82 "2010-11-29T13:53:49Z")
Some of you guys remind me of Col Jessep. “_You fucking people. You have no idea how to defend a nation. All you did was weaken a country today. That’s all you did. You put people’s lives in danger. Sweet dreams, son._” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/83 "2010-11-29T14:53:16Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Now we’ll have an overhaul regarding how this data is handled I should hope so, in the interests of protecting secrets that genuinely need to be secret. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/84 "2010-11-29T15:58:28Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > If you are comfortable with one individual being able to affect US foreign policy against the wishes of elected and appointed government officials, then all the more power to the adversaries of the US government elected to represent the people of the United States. If the electorate doesn’t have the first fucking clue what their elected officials think about things or have any notion about how they go about their business, it’s not a very well functioning democracy. Unless it’s your position that the people we elect know better than us? as for this having deleterious effects on our foreign policy: as someone mentioned upthread, the security/intelligence services of foreign countries conduct espionage themselves, probably already possess this information, they definitely know what’s going on (i.e. they know what the US is doing, even if they don’t have the verbatim cable of it). Likewise, I would expect any halfway-decent thinktank to be able to glean the posture of the US (or any other nation) on any of these subjects with publicly-available information. The benefit of this information comes in exposing how government operates to the citizenry - it will have no real foreign policy impact (other than any changes demanded by the electorate) other than personally offending some people. BFD. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/85 "2010-11-29T15:58:41Z")
OP: Is it fair to say that the gist of what you’re against is one person having such power? Not that the leaks weren’t bad, but if it was controlled by our elected officials, who, frankly, aren’t much more trustworthy and more politically deviant, it’s better because there’s more people handling it? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/86 "2010-11-29T16:05:06Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > It is to the benefit of the world that information like this is publicly released so that people can see what their governments do in their name. I would prefer it if the transparency was extended to cover the UK, Russia and China etc. so that it was more difficult for governments to lie to their own citizens. The problem with that, though, is that it isn’t just the country’s own citizens who get to read it. The reason diplomatic cables are kept secret isn’t generally because because a country wants to hide what it’s doing diplomatically from its citizens, but because it wants to hide what it’s doing from other countries. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/87 "2010-11-29T16:05:32Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yeah, Diplomats, you know, the guys who we send abroad to keep relations good so there are less conflicts in the world?! Unbeliavable. You mean people like Valerie Plame and her husband who worked to ensure better relations by sticking to truth only to be outed by Administration hell bent on making war? The amount of venom in your gangsta-style outburst is only matched by the total absence of moral compass. Which is one and the same, kinda. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/88 "2010-11-29T16:09:07Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The problem with that, though, is that it isn’t just the country’s own citizens who get to read it. The reason diplomatic cables are kept secret isn’t generally because because a country wants to hide what it’s doing diplomatically from its citizens, but because it wants to hide what it’s doing from other countries. Most spying is an open secret to those in the know. It’s not like Iran woke up today, logged onto Wikileaks, and was surprised that Saudi Arabia would like them knocked off the power position in the ME. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/89 "2010-11-29T16:34:17Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Most spying is an open secret to those in the know. It’s not like Iran woke up today, logged onto Wikileaks, and was surprised that Saudi Arabia would like them knocked off the power position in the ME. No, but Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi might be surprised to find out that the Us considers him “feckless, vain, and ineffective as a modern European leader”. Ok, so that’s probably not much a surprise, but the point remains. Assuming that Berlusconi were going to stay in power, which he’s probably not, this would hurt America’s ability to negotiate with him, because it just came out that we called him feckless and vain and his feelings will understandably be hurt. Plus, there’s a difference between knowing things and “knowing things”. Everyone knows that Saudi Arabia wants Iran weakened., but it’s another thing to actually say that publicly. It’s one thing to privately lobby for a strike against Iran, and it’s another to openly declare that one needs to happen. My point is, governments have to do some things secretly, and some elements of diplomacy need to remain secret. Sure, it’s possible spies from another country will uncover secret information, but you shouldn’t just hand it to them. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/90 "2010-11-29T16:39:55Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No, but Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi might be surprised to find out that the Us considers him “feckless, vain, and ineffective as a modern European leader”. Ok, so that’s probably not much a surprise, but the point remains. Assuming that Berlusconi were going to stay in power, which he’s probably not, this would hurt America’s ability to negotiate with him, because it just came out that we called him feckless and vain and his feelings will understandably be hurt. I don’t think world leaders, who aren’t autocrats, are in a position (or act like they’re in a position) to play the butthurt diva and take things personally. Presidents don’t negotiate things anyway - there are legions of negotiators and undersecretaries that actually do this stuff. > [@](#): > > Plus, there’s a difference between knowing things and “knowing things”. Everyone knows that Saudi Arabia wants Iran weakened., but it’s another thing to actually say that publicly. It’s one thing to privately lobby for a strike against Iran, and it’s another to openly declare that one needs to happen. What’s been said publicly? Nothing’s been said openly, here, it’s just been exposed to the public. Yes, Saudi Arabia getting on al-jazeera and saying “let’s knock Iran around a bit” is provocative. This? This is hearsay. > [@](#): > > My point is, governments have to do some things secretly, and some elements of diplomacy need to remain secret. Sure, it’s possible spies from another country will uncover secret information, but you shouldn’t just hand it to them. I have faith that the stuff that needs to be kept really secret is kept secret. Notice how there are no “top secret” leaks? (If you need a primer on how the USG classifies things: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top\_secret#Secret](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_secret#Secret)) ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/91 "2010-11-29T17:11:41Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > As **BigT** implies, I’m pretty sure that the government of every country (and many individuals that probably number in the millions) know how to make an atomic bomb. My comment was clearly referring to the past, with the implicit reference to the development of the weapon. For the satisfaction of the context-impaired “perhaps we should have published the progress being made on atomic technology developments and made the information publicly accessible to the Axis powers during WWII so that they could use that information against us.” This joint is straight full of dopes. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/92 "2010-11-29T17:48:06Z")
NPR discussed that one fallout of this will be MORE compartmentalizing of classified information. We tried to open up communications between agencies so that a complete picture could be seen. However, we now have a low level member of the US Military (supposedly) sharing secret cables from within the US State Department. I am sure that State is now re-thinking how much they want to share with the Pentagon. That will take us back to having multiple separate intel groups not sharing information because they can not trust others to KEEP it secret. Another problem will be that we have shift a lot of diplomats and embassy employees who were honest in their cables. Those people will not be able to perform their duties now that their appraisals have been made public. We will have to train new experts in their particular areas instead. There is a cost to all of this, but it will not all be seen immediately. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/93 "2010-11-29T18:20:08Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > You mean people like Valerie Plame and her husband who worked to ensure better relations by sticking to truth only to be outed by Administration hell bent on making war? > > The amount of venom in your gangsta-style outburst is only matched by the total absence of moral compass. Which is one and the same, kinda. Gangsta-style? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/94 "2010-11-29T18:54:42Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Gangsta-style? Veritably the most controversial part of my post, no? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/95 "2010-11-29T19:09:52Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Gangsta-style? I think “gangsta-style” refers to this part: > [@magellan01](#): > > As far as Assange, my guess is that he’ll be killed. And not a nanosecond too soon. Not by us, but by some instrument of someone he’s embarrassed or endangered. and whoever offs that scumbag should get the Medal of Honor. Assange is an enemy of democracy and the world, and of the U.S. in particular. Put me in proximity with him and give me a gun and I’d GLADLY do it. Thing is, getting butt-hurt about Assange misses the point. OK, so one guy with a website can publish any secret documents they happen to come across. And if we assassinate Assange, that won’t be true anymore? No, it’ll still be true. I guess if we declare a fatwa against Assange, it will have a chilling effect on others, like the death threats against the Mohammad cartoonists. But all it takes is one guy willing to host one of these websites. Given that there are 6 billion people on Earth, I expect that it won’t be too hard to find a couple of people willing to do this. And even without a website like wikileaks, there’s always the age-old practice of mailing this stuff to the New York Times and the Washington Post. How are you going to stop that? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/96 "2010-11-29T19:12:22Z")
Buy lots more bullets? ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/97 "2010-11-29T20:00:25Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but Assange has gone on record as saying, in effect, _“Information should be free, and everyone has the right to know everything”._ He seems to be remarkably inflexible on this point, and it is easy to imagine him someday releasing information which genuinely threatens the safety of undercover agents, and, by extension, the safety of our troops and innocent civilians. I have a question, for those applauding Assange’s actions; how would you feel about him if _he_ and not the Bush Administration, had ‘outed’ Valerie Plame? I seem to remember a great many people on these boards calling for Cheney’s head over that little stunt… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/98 "2010-11-29T20:24:48Z")
> [@George\_Kaplin](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong here, but Assange has gone on record as saying, in effect, _“Information should be free, and everyone has the right to know everything”._ He seems to be remarkably inflexible on this point, and it is easy to imagine him someday releasing information which genuinely threatens the safety of undercover agents, and, by extension, the safety of our troops and innocent civilians. I have a question, for those applauding Assange’s actions; how would you feel about him if _he_ and not the Bush Administration, had ‘outed’ Valerie Plame? I seem to remember a great many people on these boards calling for Cheney’s head over that little stunt… Was he elected to do a job? Was he actively working counter to that job and violating oaths just so he could take out a petty feud with someone? The VPOTUS and the POTUS owe me, as a citizen. A random Aussie with a website, however, does not. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/99 "2010-11-29T20:35:05Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Was he elected to do a job? Was he actively working counter to that job and violating oaths just so he could take out a petty feud with someone? > > The VPOTUS and the POTUS owe me, as a citizen. A random Aussie with a website, however, does not. > > -Joe Osama bin laden doesn’t owe you anything either ? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/100 "2010-11-29T21:09:24Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Osama bin laden doesn’t owe you anything either ? Shut the fuck up, liar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=6)