# Julian Assange and WikiLeaks **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184 "2010-11-28T18:07:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/161 "2010-11-30T07:48:45Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I’m sure the officials being spied on and stolen from under her orders (in violation of the 1946 UN Convention) feel differently. Which is, it should go without saying, why we don’t tell them we’re doing it. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/162 "2010-11-30T07:53:04Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Of course it is. If anything, Assange here has done you a massive favour and will be the target of curses from non-US intelligence agencies around the world. But you can’t expect an idiot like Magellan to understand that. > > What Assange has published is a list of info downloaded by Pfc Bradley Manning and passed onto him. Private, first class. Your data security is so shit that the 3rd fucking lowest class enlisted ranked personnel can access secret documents that have nothing to do with him. How many other countries do you think have benefited from this ridiculous laxness? How many have managed to find a person with similar security clearance as Bradley, or higher, and paid them? At a guess, I’d have thought pretty much all of them. > > So, you should be thanking Assange for pointing out that, in data security terms, you’ve left the family silver on the front lawn for anyone to pick up. You should be demanding that your government starts taking data security seriously, cracking down on the systems in place, the methodology used for monitoring access, the level of access given. Because until then, all you’re doing is shooting the messenger. > > But I seriously doubt you’ll do that, because this isn’t the first time in the last few years that someone waltzed into your supposedly secure systems and helped themselves, and the US is still trying to screw him over. [Last time](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon) it was a barely competent alien conspiracy theorist with Aspergers who waltzed through unsecured machines and wide open firewalls, and you’re trying to frame him as a criminal mastermind who caused $800,000 in damage. > > In short, all recent evidence suggests that your government/military IT security is farcical, at a time when computer warfare is a growing [military](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet) [tactic](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/01/google-censorship-china/) and until you start taking this shit seriously, you can expect to see further such events, or something much, much worse. Actually, it’s known and expected that government networks like [SIPRNet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRNET) _cannot_ be completely protected, which is why the data only goes up to the level of “Secret”. One reason for this is to share as much data as possible across mulitple government agencies in the hope of avoiding the intelligence failures and poor communication that prevented any chance of stopping the 9/11 attacks. Manning’s rank doesn’t matter. [Millions](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/siprnet-america-stores-secret-cables) have access the network he compromised. He’s a United States soldier and intelligence analyst. He took an oath and he willingly violated it, allegedly. If he had uncovered criminal activity by his superiors and/or by military contractors and given it to Wikileaks, this would be a different story. As it stands, he’s just a garden-variety criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/163 "2010-11-30T08:22:09Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Actually, it’s known and expected that government networks like [SIPRNet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRNET) _cannot_ be completely protected, which is why the data only goes up to the level of “Secret”. One reason for this is to share as much data as possible across mulitple government agencies in the hope of avoiding the intelligence failures and poor communication that prevented any chance of stopping the 9/11 attacks. > > Manning’s rank doesn’t matter. [Millions](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/siprnet-america-stores-secret-cables) have access the network he compromised. He’s a United States soldier and intelligence analyst. He took an oath and he willingly violated it, allegedly. If he had uncovered criminal activity by his superiors and/or by military contractors and given it to Wikileaks, this would be a different story. As it stands, he’s just a garden-variety criminal. Wrong, and wrong For instance, a simple user log of accessed information crosschecked against expected access patterns should have seen Manning being flagged. A quarter of a million embassy documents accessed by a PFC. That should have seen alarm bells ringing instantly if your security system is worth a shit. And that’s why the rank does matter. If you’re not doing any form of user profiling to automate the most basic of checks to ensure that data access is within reasonable patterns, such as querying why a very low level officer is querying such huge volumes of data, then you’re being stupid. If you’re giving cross the board access to all information to such a low level office then you’re being stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/164 "2010-11-30T11:42:52Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > A strong United States is good for America and the people of America. Not when that strength is used to engage in wars of conquest and torture on a worldwide scale. When that’s the case. a _weak_, ineffectual America is better for Americans. No doubt being weak an ineffectual would piss off of America’s leaders, but if they’re torturing people and engaging in opportunistic warfare, screw em. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/165 "2010-11-30T12:59:56Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > You know what? You’re not even worth arguing with. Ah, the classic “you aren’t worthy” copout; that seems to have been gaining popularity on the SDMB. It saves having to actually come up with a defense for your position I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/166 "2010-11-30T14:18:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Except these leaks aren’t about our elected officials. These are leaks of diplomatic cables, stuff like “The Saudi Arabian Foreign minister encouraged us privately to take strong action against Iran” or “In the opinion of our analysts, the British public won’t support more British casualties in Afghanistan” > > If this was something like Watergate, then sure, it should come out. But these are actual, honest to goodness affairs of state, and it’s stuff that shouldn’t be made public. It’s stuff that will actively hurt the United States by making it public and make it more difficult for us to use influence and project our power around the world. Gosh. The US will have a harder time bullying the rest of us now. How terrible. > [@](#): > > Don’t you people get that? Yes, I get it. But I don’t have a problem with it ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/167 "2010-11-30T14:26:34Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > > [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > > > You can’t even count you little fart. > > I count fine. You’re the one with the cognitive problems. > > Caught you lying in the other thread; that’s one. > > Caught you lying in this thread; that’s two. > > Two lies in two threads. The sexual tension between you two is almost unbearable. I wish you’d go ahead and relieve each other. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/168 "2010-11-30T14:53:07Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > [WikiLeaks Exposé: Barak Warned Strike on Iran Was Viable Until End of 2010 - Haaretz Com](http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-wikileaks-claims-u-s-dismissed-israel-s-warnings-about-iran-bomb-1.327453) > > _a State Department official states in a classified cable that Netanyahu informed the United States of Iran’s nuclear advancement in November 2009, but that the prime minister’s estimate was likely unfounded and intended to pressure Washington into action against the Islamic Republic_ > > No way! > > :smack: Just when you think it can’t get any more bizarre than it already is, the new spin is that while not denying unfounded pressure (i.e. lies) from Israel w.r.t. to Iran it is in fact Saudis who are leading the way asking for “head of snake to be cut off”. Wow! I had no idea that the standard is so low when you can point to bunch of privileged medieval religious “royalty” nutbars to make yourself look good. Shit I took this morning is more democratic than these turds. This is golden. Shower, that is. And people are taking it like it’s morning dew… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/169 "2010-11-30T15:30:59Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > The sexual tension between you two is almost unbearable. I wish you’d go ahead and relieve each other. He’s getting a thumping, not a humping. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/170 "2010-11-30T16:02:55Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Of course it is. If anything, Assange here has done you a massive favour and will be the target of curses from non-US intelligence agencies around the world. But you can’t expect an idiot like Magellan to understand that. And an idiot like you evidently doesn’t understand that even if some of the particular information released this time doesn’t hurt us, or even helps us, that it simply can’t be allowed. Let’s say there is nothing this time around that can hurt us, how do you know that will be the case the next time around? Leaks are bad and cannot be allowed. Leaks en masse bad are worse. Does that help, Idiot? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/171 "2010-11-30T16:19:51Z")
Nonsense. Bank robbers are doing us all a favor by pointing out the weakness of bank security. They’re just another form of whistle-blower. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/172 "2010-11-30T16:59:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And an idiot like you evidently doesn’t understand that even if some of the particular information released this time doesn’t hurt us, or even helps us, that it simply can’t be allowed. Let’s say there is nothing this time around that can hurt us, how do you know that will be the case the next time around? Leaks are bad and cannot be allowed. Leaks en masse bad are worse. Does that help, Idiot? You know, your level of stupidity has always been somewhat refreshing. Quite often I get concerned that someone’s being ironic, and not quite as dumb as they appear…but then along comes you, with such a genuine and self evident level of fuckwittery that there’s just no doubting it. The issue, my dear little chump, is that data crime is not a one time thing (which on preview I see Shodan is also confused by, but no surprise there). Unlike stealing money from a bank, if I steal data it’s still there to be thieved by other ne’er-do-wells. If you have one data leak like this, where a low access employee/officer can pull down a quarter of a million documents with not so much as a query until the leak was made public, then you can bet that there’s many other leaks. In fact if you’ve got such a blatant leak as this, it’s a very good bet that there’s a whole stack of worse security issues that you don’t know about, all sitting there to be exploited. Not this petty shit about Prince Andrew being rude to someone or Berlusconi being an old tart. Serious information with real military value to people who don’t like the US. Follow so far? Probably not, but I’ll soldier on. So how this benefits you, my dear challenged chums, is that now the problem is public, and embarrassing enough that powers that be might just do something about it. Do you follow so far, old fellow? To put it in terms you may be more personally familiar with, it’s like a mental health issue. Until you acknowledge there’s a problem, you’re not likely to do something about it. If the US data security policy was a person, this little incident is the equivalent of walking down the high street smeared in its own shit, claiming to be the king of neptune. It’s going to be a little difficult for even the scapegoating twunts that run your data networks to say everything’s fine, nothing to worry about. So yes, this has actually helped you a lot. Rest assured, if either you or Shodan needs further help trying to understand the above, I’ll be more than happy to keep shining a little more light on your darkness. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/173 "2010-11-30T17:16:13Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > He’s getting a thumping, not a humping. Maybe, but from the cheaper seats it looks like a lot of “sez you!” and “so’s yer old man!” between you and the world’s least mellow snowboarder. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/174 "2010-11-30T18:07:12Z")
_Great News, Mr. President_ - a play BO - Barack Obama, played by Barack Obama WHSO - White House Security Officer, played by Gary Kumquat SATURDAY. THE OVAL OFFICE. NOON. WHSO: Mr. Obama, we have some great news! BO: Really? I could use some good news. WHSO: Well, the chances of someone breaking into the residence and raping one of your daughters just plummeted. It’s is now lower than ever! Granted it was always low, but now it’s much, much, much lower. BO: Well, that’s good news, I guess. How’d you accomplish that? WHSO: Well, that’s more of a good news/bad news thing. It turns out that this morning someone did break into the residence and raped Malia. BO: WHAT?! Are you out of your mind—you said you had great news. WHSO: It is great news. Thanks to that break in and rape, we were able to plug a hole in our security. So, as I said, the already low chance of someone being able to break in and rape one of your daughters is now lower than ever!!! BO: GUARD! Guard: Yes, sir! BO: Shoot this stupid motherfucker in the head, please. And that’s an order. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/175 "2010-11-30T18:15:38Z")
Goddamn, you’re stupid. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/176 "2010-11-30T18:27:01Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Goddamn, you’re stupid. …says the man standing at the bus stop wearing swim fins and a snorkel and little arm floaties. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/177 "2010-11-30T18:27:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > …says the man standing at the bus stop wearing swim fins and a snorkel and little arm floaties. Oh, right, you’re not stupid, just living in an entirely different reality. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/178 "2010-11-30T18:34:29Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Oh, right, you’re not stupid, just living in an entirely different reality. Gotcha. I think he and Dutchman must both live in Delusionville. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/179 "2010-11-30T18:50:26Z")
And that, Mags, is pretty much what I mean by you being sincere in your stupidity. You wear it like a badge of pride. It’s almost charming. You feel that the act of rape is comparable to data theft. Now, unless you feel that you could rape someone without them noticing at all, that’s just not a good analogy. I could well believe that people have described you as forgettable, but seriously they don’t even notice your efforts at all? Shit, that goes a long way to explaining the latent hostility. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184/180 "2010-11-30T19:11:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I think you’re making this WAY harder than it really is. Think of it as being akin to killing the President or Prime Minister. We don’t have a lot of attempts, because the price is so high. So, we’re stuck with worrying about nitwits like **Der Trihs**. Also, keep in mind that we’;re not talking about the general population here. We’re talking about people who would already have a pretty serious degree of clearance. The fem soldier got through the cracks. It’ll be harder from here on out. Especially if we make an example of him. They should bring him to trial FAST, and then lock his ass up even faster. If he warrants the death penalty, so much the better. Televise it. By say…April. But we’re not simply talking about the people who have access to the material in the first place, we’re talking about those who take that material and release it. We have Bradley Mannings and Julian Assanges, in other words, so we do have general population concerns in there. And while I can sympathise with the idea of a fast bringing to trial and sentencing - certainly if you want to make an example, you have to be as quick about it as possible so people can link it to the crime - I am\* immensely \*wary about calling for fast justice. I know you’re simply talking about those aspects of a trial and setencing which can be safely “hurried”, but still, it’s not something i’m all that comfortable with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/562184.md?page=10)