What an odd way to spell egotist.
Ya know, it’s funny how every time a conservative is asked for an example of government doing something good, they cite WW2.
They don’t like to talk about Vietnam, or the wars in South America to topple democratic governments to ensure the continued flow of corporate profits, or the atrocities committed during the Gulf War, or the illegal Iraq War 2, or the (continuing) torture, or the drug wars that see American citizens jailed and South American police forces militarized (resulting in roaming death squads), or the secret deals and giveaways to paramilitary corporations like Blackwater…
My grandfather fought the Nazis in WW2 and returned to his country only to struggle against the tyranny of Soviet Communism, where dissidents were disappeared, summarily executed, or put on show trials. And now that a *worldwide *oligarchy aims to control the populace by suspending civil liberties and instituting “military tribunals” in lieu of real trials, the cheerleaders of state violence (the teabaggers) are again enthusiastically praising brutality and malice.
My point here is not to rehash the debate of civil liberties versus security, since this does not apply to our present situation anyway. The U.S. government attacks and meddles in other countries in secret (and the corporate mainstream media wouldn’t report on it even if it wasn’t secret), then, when those who suffered in those attacks seek revenge, we are told that they’ve always hated us and to simply trust the government.
Rather, my point is that the teabaggers, those who claim to support small government, are not at all principled. This is merely rhetorical for them. They are perfectly content to have big government when it comes to torture, or intolerance for those with different beliefs, or attempts to disenfranchise the weakest segments of society from participating in the political process. They are okay with the government assassinating political enemies, invading other countries for the economic benefit of the elite, and the murder of the nameless, faceless brown people. It is quite alright with them if the government protects the wealthy and corporations, but heaven forfend it should create even meager supports for the poor.
Heavens! if this is supposed to be performance art, portraying a “Der Trihs on One Valium”, well done! Otherwise, you have your head so far up your ass you could tongue your uvula like a clitoris.
Are you really unaware of the good that the U.S. has done? Are you really that ignorant? And you talk about your grandfather who found himself back in Russia at an ugly time. Tell me, how do you think he’d view this country if her were living here? He might like the dispersement of amusement parks over that of gulags, no? I find is laughable that you bristle at the mention of WWII as proof of big, bad government(s) doing good. You don’t like it mentioned because the good of the role of the Allied forces is unassailable. Now, that should teach you something about your position, like how it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. But what the heck, ignore it, and all the other good the government of the U.S. and other countries has done.
And somehow you managed to inject racism into your post, and it class warfare. I don’t think Der Trihs could have done better himself. With the handicap of the Valium anyway. If you want to go sponge-to-sponge with him, you’ll have to dial up the passion. I mean, crazy is good, but crazy with passion, that’s where the big money is.
You need to learn to read; either that, or you are simply being disingenuous because you can’t defend your position.
I never impugned the U.S. for participating in WW2. To the contrary, I think it was instrumental in defeating the Axis and the decision of the US to enter that war (and on the side of the Allies) was the correct one. Having said that, it cannot be ignored that there was a vocal portion of Americans who were opposed to US participation in the war, some of whom supported the Nazis. I am not arguing that the US role in WW2 should not praised, and I certainly am thankful for the sacrifices of American soldiers (and others on the Allied side). However, the evil of American foreign policy after WW2 cannot be ignored. And it *was *far more evil than good.
You quite blatantly ignored my point about state violence. Whether the state that decides to do away with trials is capitalist or socialist is quite irrelevant. It is wrong in either case. You support assassinating those who vocally disagree with American policy or attempt to lift the veil of secrecy that the elites operate under. This is exactly what the supporters of the politburo and the Nazis did. My grandfather would not view the US of today positively because it is steadily moving in the direction of what he fought against!
If someone like Assange came by and released Bush’s info. it may have kept us out of iraq. He is performing a service that the news organization have failed terribly at. Let the light shine in.
Actually, you need to pay closer attention to the words. I didn’t say you impugned the U’S.'s position/involvement in WWII, but that you had a problem with the fact that their involvement was so clearly praiseworthy. Because that conflicts with your opinion of the U.S. government. You don’t like it when it’s brought up because it undermines your position.
As far as you claiming that I “support ssassinating those who vocally disagree with American policy or [:rolleyes:] attempt to lift the veil of secrecy that the elites operate under”, that’s weaselly bullshit. I have never come close to advocating the assassination of someone who just vocally disagree with American policy. Of course, if you have proof to the contrary, serve it up you weak sack of shit. As far as the latter part, yes, I support locking up or assassinating he or anyone else who seeks to help those who seek to kill our troops. If some non-combatant was helping the Germans by revealing information that was getting your grandfather’s comrades killed, I’m sure he’d advocate taking that mother fucker out. And I’m sure it was done, on all sides. Assange is a nothing but a self-important fuck. He made his own bed, let him sleep in it. Whether it’s a cot in a dark cell that will never see the light of day or in a coffin.
And grow the fuck up. Stop embarrassing your grandfather.
Asshole.
And that crazy little thing called OPEC…
Sleeping, go back to sleep. You’re clearly over-tired and, as a result, making no sense. Yes, the US has been the “big dog” since WWII - that doesn’t make the government evil. Some bad actors? Yes. Some bullshit in every transaction? Maybe/probably. You’re not the only one who is dissatisfied with the US government. In fact, democracy depends on dissatisfaction; hence the impetus for constant change in government. The day you wake up and say, “Wow, now the government is perfect” is the day that democracy has failed.
In regard to torture, the US doesn’t advocate it. When “enhanced interrogation” is needed to get information that saves lives, I’m all for it. Hell, break my legs and waterboard me (even if I don’t know anything) if there’s a 1% chance that 3,000 people will live because of it. I won’t like it, won’t be happy about it (particularly if it’s not successful), but I’ll take the pain to save lives.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the most dangerous situation you’ve ever been in was when mommy almost sideswiped someone while she was putting on her makeup and you were in your baby-seat.
In the real world, there are “bad guys” who need to be dealt with. Sometimes, “bad guys” can’t be put in jail. Sometimes, “bad guys” need killin’.
Gideon Rachman of the Financial Times maintains that the US should award Julian Assange a medal. Assange has done the US a favor, according to Mr. Rachman, “…by inadvertently debunking decades-old conspiracy theories about its foreign policy. …WikiLeaks has revealed that, remarkably enough, the public position taken by the US on any given issue is usually the private position as well.” Where there is a gap between the two, it typically reflects ordinary diplomatic language and euphemism.
Mr. Rachman is not the first observer to note that the US has come off looking fairly well.
A drawing of Assange’s hypothetical award ceremony is in the link:
America should give Assange a medal | Financial Times
Dude, you bring someone’s family into it, and you think they’re the asshole?
As for the rest of your argument: seems like it would be to the U.S.'s advantage to reveal anyone who dies from this leak. So, how about we prove that this guy gave out information that could kill someone before we murder him without a trial?
No, you very much promote killing someone for what he said. Like it or not, the guy is doing what freedom of speech was designed for–reporting on government actions.
Finally, it’s funny that you hate Assange revealing information because he was not elected with the abiliyt to do so, but you promote having all these people in the military, none of which have been elected, to choose to murder Assange.
Yes, it is murder, since murder is the unlawful killing of an individual, and there is no law in any of the countries that he’s been in or that he has offended that allow killing without a trial. Assassination is murder.
Then you are, in fact, advocating for and supportive of torture. Don’t lie to yourself. What you just wrote there is a big thumbs up for torture.
There was a time when new organizations actually did independent war reporting. During Nam reporters gathered a lot of info about how badly the war was really going. The military never admits it is failing. It always wants an escalation because the next one will surely achieve victory. Only it didn’t time after time. Newspapers had bureaus with military reporters independently gathering facts on the ground.
The military did not like it. They spent a lot of time analyzing what went wrong in regards to Americans getting the unvarnished truth. So they came up with embedded reporters. That works very well. You travel with the soldiers and see it all from their viewpoint. You rely on them for your safety. That colors reportage.
The war was reported by Rumsfield and a carefully chosen general every day or so. They would show carefully cooked up info backing the military viewpoint. We all know the military lies, but when they control all the news, it makes their lies into fact. You could not get any counter stories in the American press.
Wikileaks is far better than the nothing we have now.
Nice try. But you really need to pay closer attention to the words on the page. I was not I who brought his grandfather into the discussion.
Are you really of the belief that freedom of speech was designed for people to reveal the government’s classified and secret information? Really?! REALLY?!!! And if so, does it matter that it is during a time of war and the information is related to that war? Oh, and please point to the discussions or writings by the Founding Fathers that support your opinion about Freedom of Speech. I’m sure I’d find it fascinating reading.
Unbelievable.
Nice try. But try paying closer attention to the words on the page. I was not the one who brought his grandfather into the discussion.
No, there’s that reading problem of yours again. I said I think Obama should order him either rendered or assassinated, like he has done with the Al Qaeda guy.
Nice try. But try paying closer attention to the words on the page. I was not the one who brought his grandfather into the discussion.
If someone is revealing sensitive information and putting our soldier’s lives in danger he has declared himself an enemy combatant. He has put the target on his own forehead.
I think Americans should know what is going on. I think Karzai being a thief and a drug facilitator while helping Pakistan make the Taliban safe, should be well known
. American journalists are screaming at Assange because he has shown they are not doing their jobs. I suppose there is some guilt in that. If Wiki released Bush’s trumped up excuses to get into Iraq, we may have saved our country from the damage he caused. But all the news fell in line. No questions were asked.
Wikileaks stuff is not even “Top Secret”. Much of it is well known.
Bush put soldiers lives in danger based on lies. Is he on your hit list?
This sentiment nicely confirms the fears some of us had when the “enemy combatant” idea was hatched: that soon enough, the definition would be loosened to accommodate those who are merely an inconvenience or irritation to the United States. Whether or not Assange’s actions actually lead to to the death of soldiers (whom we take every measure to avoid putting in harm’s way, except when we’re shipping them off to die in unwinnable wars) is irrelevant; it is if we say it is. Much the same way that classified information needs to be classified because we’re told it does. To protect the troops, of course. Always the troops.
The relentless gluttony of militarism is nothing if not predictable, and so are you.
Royal Bank of Scotland is being investigated for malfeasance in their part of the banking crisis. An official report said the bankers were going to be rebuked for making “bad decisions”. But Wikileaks of banking cables of insider emails showed the bankers demonstrating a “lack of integrity” in their actions… This makes them vulnerable to law suits
by bank stockholders. It is possible a bit of justice will be served.
Wikileaks says their next big move is the revealing of American bankers emails, demonstrating how dishonest they have been. I am waiting for those leaks. I am sure our bankers were acting in their own interests, instead of the customers. It will be great if the American people find out. Then, pitchforks and torches will be the tools for justice.
Tom the Dancing Bug by Ruben Bolling has more misses than hits, but Dec 17th’s entry is topical and funny. Julian Assange is tossed in jail for espionage and now has to deal with toughest prisoner in cellblock 8: Bob Woodward.
This link will be different in a week: Today on Tom the Dancing Bug - Comics by Ruben Bolling - GoComics
I think this will work indefinitely, but I’m not positive: Tom the Dancing Bug: Julian Assange Goes to Prison For Espionage, and Joins a Gang | Boing Boing
I just raped and killed your mommy, and am about to do the same to your wife. Billy knows of my evil plans, but is afraid that I’ll rape and kill his mommy. Are you gonna’ sit there and try and “talk it out,” or beat Billy to a bloody pulp until he tells you who I am.
I’m not advocating torture. I’m saying that sometimes, you have to get rough. If that weren’t the case, all international disputes would be resolved by the UN.
I nearly shit myself laughing about resolving things in the UN…
Hi Billy! Whadya say we go visit the local constable? Oh, you don’t want to cooperate? I guess I’ll have to hire a lawyer then: you understand that you might be liable right? IANAL, but I can bullshit if needed.
You are hiding behind euphemism and ambiguity. It seems to me that you lack the cojones to say what you mean. Until you do, I have trouble taking your bravado seriously.
You have, in fact, once again advocated for torture there. It’s hard for me to imagine how you can say something like that and yet still delude yourself into thinking you’ve done anything different.
“I don’t believe in violence, and I’ll kill anyone who says I do.”