# Julian Assange (remember him?) update **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2016, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210 "2016-02-05T07:20:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/261 "2018-11-16T17:21:20Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Uh, yeah the idea that there was a sealed indictment was sooooo crazy. And the corollary to that is… … if he _had_ been extradited to Sweden, the US indictment would have been unsealed and he would simply have been passed on to the US. In terms of the Swedish-American extradition treaty, if a person is facing any charges in Sweden, he can automatically be extradited to the US on different charges for an indefinite period of time without the Swedish charges being resolved, under what is called ‘temporary surrender’. The Swedish Government, NOT the courts, is the final authority in all matters of extradition. The Swedish Government has previously cooperated with the US in acts of ‘extraordinary rendition’, i.e. kidnapping and torture. By now I’ve pretty much lost all sympathy for Assange, but the Swedish charges were always exceptionally flimsy and dubious. He has been proved right about the sealed indictment, and therefore right about the most likely effect of being extradited to Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/262 "2018-11-16T17:26:27Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Uh, yeah the idea that there was a sealed indictment was sooooo crazy. If you read what I wrote as saying that the idea was crazy, then you may want to think about scaling back your rhetoric meter. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/263 "2018-11-16T17:51:58Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Uh, yeah the idea that there was a sealed indictment was sooooo crazy. I’m sure some people didn’t think an indictment could exist, but I think most people were arguing that Assange’s contention that Sweden trumped up charges in order to get him out of the UK and into Sweden so that he could be extradited was the soooooo crazy part. And that remains soooo crazy. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/264 "2018-11-16T17:54:48Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If you read what I wrote as saying that the idea was crazy, then you may want to think about scaling back your rhetoric meter. I quoted your post to keep PatrickLondon’s post in context. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/265 "2018-11-16T18:13:44Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/266 "2018-11-16T18:19:56Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Except that some governments are more equal than others. > > Apparently Hilary Clinton’s emails were a far higher priority for Wikileaks in 2016 than Putin’s dealings… or Trump’s. > [WikiLeaks Turned Down Leaks on Russian Government During U.S. Presidential Campaign](https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/17/wikileaks-turned-down-leaks-on-russian-government-during-u-s-presidential-campaign/) > _The leak organization ignored damaging information on the Kremlin to focus on Hillary Clinton and election-related hacks._ > > Wikileaks is not a neutral organisation. Assange has his own political agenda, and he is probably hoping for eventual asylum in Russia. After watching [this thread’s](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=865616) [videos](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/opinion/russia-meddling-disinformation-fake-news-elections.html)highlighting Russia’s disinformation campaign, and observing that all of what is published by wikileaks was the sewing or division and distrust, but that looking over the [list of Wikileaks publications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_material_published_by_WikiLeaks), which include embarrassing documents spanning the globe, I noticed that there was a conspicuous absence of any documents that were embarrassing to Russia. (if I missed any that were please correct me). This makes me wonder whether the Assange and the whole wikileaks concept could be product of the Russian disinformation campaign, or it not originally formed by it quickly co-opted by it. I’ve never had much respect for Assange, but now I’m vacillating between useful idiot and full on enemy agent. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/267 "2018-11-16T18:48:16Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > … was the soooooo crazy part. And that remains soooo crazy. The more "o"s, the crazier? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/268 "2018-11-16T18:58:46Z")
My question after all of this is, what the heck is Ecuador getting out of all of this that would make them want to house him all of this time? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/269 "2018-11-16T19:07:27Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > After watching [this thread’s](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=865616) [videos](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/opinion/russia-meddling-disinformation-fake-news-elections.html)highlighting Russia’s disinformation campaign, and observing that all of what is published by wikileaks was the sewing or division and distrust, but that looking over the [list of Wikileaks publications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_material_published_by_WikiLeaks), which include embarrassing documents spanning the globe, I noticed that there was a conspicuous absence of any documents that were embarrassing to Russia. (if I missed any that were please correct me). > > This makes me wonder whether the Assange and the whole wikileaks concept could be product of the Russian disinformation campaign, or it not originally formed by it quickly co-opted by it. I’ve never had much respect for Assange, but now I’m vacillating between useful idiot and full on enemy agent. I moved him over to the “enemy agent” column a few years ago. As you note, the information is one sided and well timed. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/270 "2018-11-16T19:10:32Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The more "o"s, the crazier? The more ghosts that are involved. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/271 "2018-11-16T19:15:40Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m sure some people didn’t think an indictment could exist, but I think most people were arguing that Assange’s contention that Sweden trumped up charges in order to get him out of the UK and into Sweden so that he could be extradited was the soooooo crazy part. And that remains soooo crazy. Not really. The optics of extradition while in Sweden over a criminal charge would have been much more favorable than extradition from the UK out of the blue. “Hey, we want to extradite that rapist” is definitely more palatable than “Hey, can you give us that guy who spilled all our secrets”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/272 "2018-11-16T19:23:09Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Not really. The optics of extradition while in Sweden over a criminal charge would have been much more favorable than extradition from the UK out of the blue. “Hey, we want to extradite that rapist” is definitely more palatable than “Hey, can you give us that guy who spilled all our secrets”. This is an imaginary concern. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/273 "2018-11-16T19:33:34Z")
No it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/274 "2018-11-16T19:38:00Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No it isn’t. Of course it is imaginary. Edward Snowden is walking around Moscow, and yet President Obama didn’t hatch some plot to accuse him of some crime in an EU country for which he could face extradition from Russia, and then extradition from that EU country to the US. Further, the US has insisted on extradition of individuals from the UK for controversial reasons, without resorting to trumping up rape charges in some non-UK jurisdiction in order to make the “optics” better. The “optics” issue is made out of whole cloth, probably from the same sort of sources that have been quaking in their boots about the possibility of Assange being “droned” in downtown London. Boy, that laughable scenario had a bunch of Wikileaks fanboys all in a tizzy for a while. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/275 "2018-11-16T19:40:48Z")
Lol. Yes, Snowden in Russia is a perfectly reasonable comparison to Assange in London. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/276 "2018-11-16T19:47:02Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Lol. Yes, Snowden in Russia is a perfectly reasonable comparison to Assange in London. :rolleyes: I see you’ve reduced your argument from “Of COURSE Obama hatched an international plot with the leaders of two other European allies to frame a Draco Malfoy lookalike for rape because OPTICS” to just simply a rolleyes. Frankly, the rolleyes emoji is stronger in content than your optics nonsense; so I advise sticking with that. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/277 "2018-11-16T19:49:02Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > My question after all of this is, what the heck is Ecuador getting out of all of this that would make them want to house him all of this time? Random whistleblower in South America sends information to Wkileaks. Wikileaks forwards info to Ecuador then sends the info into the editorial pipeline to decide whether to publish and how much to redact if so. My guess would be that Ecuador gets a sort of free spy agency for the cost of housing one man and his cat. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/278 "2018-11-16T20:01:05Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I see you’ve reduced your argument from “Of COURSE Obama hatched an international plot with the leaders of two other European allies to frame a Draco Malfoy lookalike for rape because OPTICS” to just simply a rolleyes. > > Frankly, the rolleyes emoji is stronger in content than your optics nonsense; so I advise sticking with that. Wtf? No, I said that the fact that Obama didn’t hatch plot to frame Snowden is a completely idiotic defense of America not setting up a frame job in Sweden. It’s bizarre, because I am rather certain you don’t think the alliances, legal framework, animosity and optics are remotely equivalent. I guess you hate Assange so much you’re willing to ignore all that. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/279 "2018-11-16T20:06:14Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > This makes me wonder whether the Assange and the whole wikileaks concept could be product of the Russian disinformation campaign, or it not originally formed by it quickly co-opted by it. I’ve never had much respect for Assange, but now I’m vacillating between useful idiot and full on enemy agent. Russian intelligence would certainly try to coopt Assange. SOP. > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I moved him over to the “enemy agent” column a few years ago. As you note, the information is one sided and well timed. [Edward Snowden](https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1063520583789539328) comments: [INDENT] You can despise Wikileaks and everything it stands for. You can think Assange is an evil spirit reanimated by Putin himself. But you cannot support the prosecution of a publisher for publishing without narrowing the basic rights every newspaper relies on. [/INDENT] Snowden links to article by the [Freedom of the Press Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_Press_Foundation), an organization founded 5 years ago; he and Daniel Ellsberg serve on the board: Trevor Timm, executive director of Freedom of the Press Foundation, has issued the following statement: “Any charges brought against WikiLeaks for their publishing activities pose a profound and incredibly dangerous threat to press freedom. Whether you like Assange or hate him, the theories used in a potential Espionage Act prosecution would threaten countless reporters at the New York Times, Washington Post, and the many other news outlets that report on government secrets all the time. While everyone will have to wait and see what the charges detail, it’s quite possible core First Amendment principles will be at stake in this case.” > **[Prosecuting WikiLeaks for publishing activities poses a profound threat to...](https://freedom.press/news/prosecuting-wikileaks-publishing-activities-poses-profound-threat-press-freedom/)** > > Any Espionage Act prosecution also threatens journalists at the New York Times and Washington Post.  ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/280 "2018-11-16T20:10:45Z")
**CarnalK** I have no idea what you’re saying there. Frame job? No frame job? Are you saying that Snowden and Assange are or are not equivalent? To return to the earlier question, why would the US need to ask Sweden to create a rape charge in order to extradite Assange? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210.md?page=15)