# Julian Assange (remember him?) update **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2016, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210 "2016-02-05T07:20:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/321 "2018-11-19T00:29:05Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > I must say, I’m a bit confused by the notion of a “sealed indictment”: it even sounds a bit sinister. We don’t have such a thing, so I can’t tell whether it’s the equivalent of our (formal) preliminary hearing before a magistrate that starts the court processes in motion, or an earlier stage in the process of investigation and referral to the Crown Prosecution Service (which is not public, for fear of prejudicing any eventual trial). I don’t think we formally issue charges in absentia, just indicate that the police “wish to interview” someone or maybe even issue an arrest warrant if someone is on the run, but the precise details of why and what the likely evidence will be are still withheld from the public for the same reason (the person concerned and their lawyers have, of course, the obvious route to finding out and preparing their answers. Here is a brief summary of [what indictment means in the federal context](https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/what-is-an-indictment.html) and why it is sealed. > [@](#): > > The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution requires the federal government to seek an indictment from a grand jury in order to prosecute someone for a felony or “otherwise infamous” crime. Since an indictment comes after a grand jury but typically before an arrest, it may be “sealed” for however much time is needed to prevent the defendant or other suspects from fleeing, destroying evidence, or otherwise evading justice. > > The grand jury requirement is not extended to the states, but many states follow a similar procedure for the prosecution of serious felonies (and some misdemeanors). ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/322 "2018-11-19T06:39:40Z")
Thanks for the clarification. That makes it sound more like a grand jury (which we no longer have) acting much as our CPS does, in checking that the police have enough strong evidence to justify a charge (which is equally confidential). ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/323 "2018-11-27T02:14:28Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s the executive branch that then decides whether or not to extradite the individual. Extradition treaties almost invariably preserve that power for the executive: the executive may order extradition if the courts certify extradition is legally available, but the executive is not required to do so. “May”, not “Shall”. > > And since that final decision is made by the elected branch of government, popular opinion matters. > > The UK and Sweden both have elections and well-informed populations. The popular view about extraditing Assange to the US would be something the Home Secretary or the Swedish equivalent would take into account. I know nothing about this so I’m just seeking clarification. The legislative branch is the elected body while the executive branch is not elected. Right? Or do they have a different system? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/324 "2018-11-27T02:29:51Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I know nothing about this so I’m just seeking clarification. The legislative branch is the elected body while the executive branch is not elected. Right? Or do they have a different system? It’s a parliamentary system without even the British pretense that the king is the real chief executive. The head of the legislative power is one and the same as the head of the executive, who is head of the winning political party. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/325 "2018-11-27T03:07:50Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s a parliamentary system without even the British pretense that the king is the real chief executive. The head of the legislative power is one and the same as the head of the executive, who is head of the winning political party. Got it, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/326 "2018-11-27T03:43:06Z")
Yes, the PM and Cabinet are all elected to the Commons, in their own constituencies. They hold office as head of the executive by virtue of having the confidence of the Commons, i.e. they can get their budget and major bills passed. The current government under Prime Minister May is a minority government. However, they have reached a political “confidence and supply” agreement with one of the smaller parties in the Commons, the Democratic Unionist Party, which holds about a dozen seats in Northern Ireland, enough to give May a majority on most major confidence and supply matters. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/327 "2018-11-27T10:21:53Z")
Either way, I doubt very much if enough Tory MPs believe that enough of the voting public is invested enough in the fate of Assange to care two hoots what the Home Secretary might decide, or at least to let it sway their votes at the next election. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/328 "2018-11-27T15:54:44Z")
The plot thickens: [Manafort held secret talks with Assange in Ecuadorian embassy](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/27/manafort-held-secret-talks-with-assange-in-ecuadorian-embassy) > [@](#): > > Donald Trump’s former campaign manager Paul Manafort held secret talks with Julian Assange inside the Ecuadorian embassy in London, and visited around the time he joined Trump’s campaign, the Guardian has been told. > … > A well-placed source has told the Guardian that Manafort went to see Assange around March 2016. Months later WikiLeaks released a stash of Democratic emails stolen by Russian intelligence officers. > … > One person familiar with WikiLeaks said Assange was motivated to damage the Democrats campaign because he believed a future Trump administration would be less likely to seek his extradition on possible charges of espionage. > … > According to the dossier written by the former MI6 officer Christopher Steele, Manafort was at the centre of a “well-developed conspiracy of cooperation” between the Trump campaign and Russia’s leadership. The two sides had a mutual interest in defeating Clinton, Steele wrote, whom Putin “hated and feared”. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/329 "2018-11-28T00:55:58Z")
Oh, my! ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/330 "2018-11-28T21:57:31Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The plot thickens: > > [Manafort held secret talks with Assange in Ecuadorian embassy](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/27/manafort-held-secret-talks-with-assange-in-ecuadorian-embassy) March 2016 is when Fancy Bear compromised John Podesta’s email. Of more critical timing is that these were subsequently released by WikiLeaks within hours of the release of the Access Hollywood tape about Trump’s 2005 salacious ‘grab them by the p\*\*\*y’ commentary. Two competing stories each with the potential to destroy a political campaign. Textbook example of ambush political marketing. BTW, recommend most highly the podcast [Russia, If You’re Listening](https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/russia-if-youre-listening/)by Matt Bevan of our ABC if the people and the connections of Trump and Russia interest you. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/331 "2018-11-29T03:19:41Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > …Of more critical timing is that these were subsequently released by WikiLeaks within hours of the release of the Access Hollywood tape about Trump’s 2005 salacious ‘grab them by the p\*\*\*y’ commentary… Wow, I hadn’t realized the timing was that close. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2018, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/332 "2018-11-29T04:10:18Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Wow, I hadn’t realized the timing was that close. On checking, I’ve actually overstated the time-line. On October 7, 2016 4:05 P.M. EST the Access Hollywood tape was dropped into circulation. [30 minutes later](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podesta_emails), WikiLeaks began publishing thousands of emails from Podesta’s Gmail account. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/333 "2018-12-04T03:57:45Z")
Well, every once in a while the Bee of Tzar comes to visit - though, more common in recent times - and this is one of those instances: > **[Manafort last year discussed brokering a deal with Ecuador to hand over...](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/419573-manfort-suggested-he-could-broker-a-deal-to-help-ecuador-hand/)** > > President Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, reportedly discussed with Ecuador officials brokering a deal that would result in WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange be… In summary: The President of Ecuador decided to call Paul Manafort, of all people, in May of 2017, to have him come visit the country to ask him to broker a deal with the US, to trade Assange for debt relief. (Bee of Tzar -\> Bee Tzar -\> Bizarre) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/334 "2018-12-07T02:14:00Z")
**Ecuador trying to push their house guest out?** Sounds like it. Ecuador has announced that the British government has given sufficient guarantees to protect Assange, including a guarantee that Britain would not extradite Assange to a country where he would face the death penalty. “So Julian, it’s been lovely having you visit …” Assange is believed to have said "I’m good, thanks. Kitty and I like it here. " > **[Ecuador says UK has given ‘guarantees’ for Assange to leave embassy](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/dec/06/ecuador-says-uk-has-given-guarantees-for-assange-to-leave-embassy)** > > President Lenín Moreno said Ecuador has received written assurances UK would not extradite Assange to face death penalty ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/335 "2018-12-07T03:13:11Z")
Is Assange even charged with anything that would carry the death penalty? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/336 "2018-12-07T03:47:20Z")
The indictment is sealed, so we don’t know. Here are the listed crimes that are eligible, per [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_federal_government). > [@](#): > > It can be handed down for treason, espionage, murder, large-scale drug trafficking, or attempted murder of a witness, juror, or court officer in certain cases. Espionage, maybe? It sounds like we’re going to have to promise not to kill him before we get him. I wonder if the Russians will try to kill him before we can get our hands on him. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/337 "2018-12-07T12:14:21Z")
I think it is completely implausible on its face that Assange would face the death penalty. Not only is it quite clear that what we know of his actions, if criminal at all, fall well short of punishments doled out in even more serious cases. (See Robert Hanssen, for example, though he took a plea deal.) Further, I can’t see any way that any European country would extradite him without an agreement that the death penalty is off the table. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/338 "2018-12-07T18:40:49Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Further, I can’t see any way that any European country would extradite him without an agreement that the death penalty is off the table. Do you mean him specifically? Maybe. But it’s already been mentioned in this thread that the UK has stopped making that an absolute requirement for extradition. [UK facing legal action over ‘unlawful’ decision not to protect Isis ‘Beatles’ from death penalty](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-isis-beatles-death-penalty-us-extradition-home-office-sajid-javid-a8461226.html)\* \*though that’s from July. Don’t recall what legal action has happened in the interim. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/339 "2019-04-05T01:54:28Z")
It appears the camel’s back has been broken: > **[Assange to be expelled from Ecuadorian embassy 'within hours or days': WikiLeaks](https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/assange-to-be-expelled-from-ecuadorian-embassy-within-hours-or-days-wikileaks-20190405-p51b3t.html)** > > WikiLeaks says its founder's expulsion from the Ecuadorian embassy is imminent, but a senior anonymous official has denied the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/340 "2019-04-05T05:50:21Z")
_It also required Assange to pay his medical bills and clean up after his pet cat._ I just WikiLeaked my pants! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210.md?page=18)