# Julian Assange (remember him?) update **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2016, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210 "2016-02-05T07:20:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/421 "2019-06-03T17:41:15Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The cat. The cat abandoned its asylum claim back in the fall of 2018. Since it was not facing any charges in Britain, it has successfully re-integrated into British society. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/422 "2019-06-03T18:24:53Z")
[Swedish court rejects request to detain Julian Assange](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/jun/03/swedish-court-rejects-request-to-detain-julian-assange) To be honest, whatever our opinion of Assange, the Swedish charges were always bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/423 "2019-06-03T18:35:35Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > [Swedish court rejects request to detain Julian Assange](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/jun/03/swedish-court-rejects-request-to-detain-julian-assange) > > To be honest, whatever our opinion of Assange, the Swedish charges were always bullshit. I don’t know whether Assange is guilty of the charges in Sweden, but I am totally confident that the theories of Sweden conspiring to get Assange extradited to the United States are the most aromatic version of cow poop seen in this whole debacle. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/424 "2019-06-03T19:01:31Z")
Since the new charges have been laid by the US, it looks highly unlikely that the UK courts will ever allow him to be extradited. Or the European Court of Human Rights, if the UK is still in the EU at that time. I have no idea know how the Swedish courts would rule. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/425 "2019-06-03T19:17:06Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Since the new charges have been laid by the US, it looks highly unlikely that the UK courts will ever allow him to be extradited. Or the European Court of Human Rights, if the UK is still in the EU at that time. I have no idea know how the Swedish courts would rule. But if Assange were sent to Sweden, the UK would still have to sign off on his subsequent extradition to the US. That means the whole concept of “getting Assange to Sweden so he can be extradited for things that the UK wouldn’t allow him to be extradited for” has always been a conspiracy theory about as plausible as the US executing a drone strike on the Ecuadorian Embassy. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/426 "2019-06-04T04:38:56Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > But if Assange were sent to Sweden, the UK would still have to sign off on his subsequent extradition to the US. Who would have to sign off on it, the British courts or only the Home Secretary? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/427 "2019-06-04T04:50:17Z")
> [@](#): > > May 30, 2019. Julian Assange was too ill to appear by video link for the latest hearing in relation to his possible extradition to the US, lawyers for the WikiLeaks founder told a court. The hearing was the first since 2 May, when lawyers for the US government began pressing its case to extradite him to face trial for what they described as one the largest compromises of classified information in history. However, his solicitor Gareth Peirce told a judge at Westminster magistrates court in London on Thursday that Assange was too ill to appear by video link from prison. The date for the next hearing was confirmed as 12 June… > > WikiLeaks said on Tuesday **the Australian had been moved to the hospital wing of Belmarsh after a “dramatic” loss of weight and deteriorating health**. “Mr Assange’s health had already significantly deteriorated after seven years inside the Ecuadorian embassy, under conditions that were incompatible with basic human rights,” WikiLeaks said in statement. “During the seven weeks in Belmarsh his health has continued to deteriorate and he has dramatically lost weight. The decision of prison authorities to move him to the ward speaks for itself.” > **[Julian Assange too ill to appear in court via video link, lawyers say](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/may/30/julian-assange-too-ill-appear-court-via-video-link-lawyers-say)** > > Hearing is latest stage in possible extradition of WikiLeaks founder to US ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/428 "2019-06-04T12:07:34Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Who would have to sign off on it, the British courts or only the Home Secretary? So are you conceding that both the UK and Sweden would have to agree to extradite Assange from Sweden to the US, and now you’re just trying to angle in on why this is part of Trump’s evil plan? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/429 "2019-06-04T12:52:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So are you conceding that both the UK and Sweden would have to agree to extradite Assange from Sweden to the US, and now you’re just trying to angle in on why this is part of Trump’s evil plan? I haven’t disputed that the UK would have to agree. Please don’t attribute imagined arguments or motives to me. I don’t know what the Swedish laws on extradition or freedom of the press are, but if they are less stringent than the UK, and if only the UK Home Secretary has to sign off on extradition to a third country, then it may well be easier to extradite him from Sweden. There must be _some_ reason why Sweden has been pursuing this so intensely for so long. I assume you know that no charges have ever been laid against Assange in Sweden. All this is about investigating whether or not charges _should_ be laid. Charges which are not actually serious, despite the continual repetition of ‘rape’. There has never been any dispute that the sex was consensual, and that both women remained on good terms with him for days after the alleged incidents. That doesn’t mean I like Assange. It means I like the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/430 "2019-06-04T13:12:41Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > There must be _some_ reason why Sweden has been pursuing this so intensely for so long. I assume you know that no charges have ever been laid against Assange in Sweden. All this is about investigating whether or not charges _should_ be laid. Suspects are not formally charged in Sweden until there’s been an interview. That’s applicable to all suspects: > [@](#): > > It is a feature of Swedish criminal procedure that a person is formally charged – through an indictment – at a relatively late stage of the process. As pointed out above, this takes place when the preliminary investigation is to terminate. This differs quite markedly from legal systems in which a person is charged on a lower degree of suspicion and is then detained or given bail while the police or prosecution authorities continue with the investigation. It is therefore not at all unusual for the Swedish Public Prosecutor to issue an European arrest warrant or a request for extradition of a suspect, before making a decision to indict the person. This does not detract from the fact that the request nonetheless is made for the purpose of prosecution, albeit that there is no actual indictment. The distinction between the overall process of prosecution (lagföring) and the actual act of prosecuting a person through indictment may be a source of confusion for foreign lawyers who only have access to translated texts of the Swedish legislation. > **[24.pdf](https://www.congreso.es/docu/docum/ddocum/dosieres/sleg/legislatura_10/spl_85/pdfs/24.pdf)** > > 312.11 KB And yet for years, you have asserted that something is rotten in Stockholm because the Swedes didn’t change their entire system of prosecution for Assange. > [@](#): > > I don’t know what the Swedish laws on extradition or freedom of the press are, but if they are less stringent than the UK, and if only the UK Home Secretary has to sign off on extradition to a third country, then it may well be easier to extradite him from Sweden. I see no reason why the extradition process would be any different. If you want to pursue this, bring cites. And not “a-ha the flag has GOLD FRINGE on it meaning Assange’s case will be heard in a maritime court!” sort of cites. > [@](#): > > Charges which are not actually serious, despite the continual repetition of ‘rape’. There has never been any dispute that the sex was consensual, and that both women remained on good terms with him for days after the alleged incidents. I’ve heard a better translation of the charges is “molestation.” If you prefer, I’ll use that term in the future if you will. > [@](#): > > That doesn’t mean I like Assange. It means I like the truth. Well, your mind has been thoroughly made up that he’s been framed for several years now, so let’s not pretend you’d be an impartial juror. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/431 "2019-06-04T13:26:42Z")
Here’s a reason the extradition process may be different: it’s two different countries with two different legal systems. You don’t exactly sound very impartial yourself. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/432 "2019-06-04T13:39:31Z")
But it doesn’t look like Sweden is going to be able to extradite him any time soon: [Julian Assange: Swedish judge rejects detention of Wikileaks founder](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48503730) > [@](#): > > Prosecutors said Assange had not co-operated with their investigation into a 2010 allegation of rape against the Wikileaks founder, and so should be remotely held for questioning. > > This would have allowed them to move forward with steps to extradite him. > > But the judge rejected the motion, as Assange is already detained in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/433 "2019-06-04T13:49:11Z")
It’s pretty clearly a set up - for it to happen at that time. What is unclear is who stands to benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/434 "2019-06-04T13:51:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Here’s a reason the extradition process may be different: it’s two different countries with two different legal systems. You don’t exactly sound very impartial yourself. I’ve said before that I don’t know if he molested the women or not. But I strongly disagree with the notion that people should be free to flee justice because they are an Internet hero to some. Further, if the case is as bad as some people assert, then why flee? (Other than conspiracy theories about the inoffensive Swedes conspiring to send him to Guantanamo or whatever.) I also have significant reservations about the U.S. charging him with crimes that border on his activities that touch on legitimate news collection in this country. We know he took classified documents and published them – I’m very wary that he should be punished for this, as it could seriously impact the freedom of the press in this country. But if he conspired to hack passwords, or worked as a witting agent of the GRU in the whole Hillary email thing, I’m fine with him having his day in court over those kinds of activities. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/435 "2019-06-04T17:13:45Z")
Let me give some basic facts about the Swedish case. 20 Aug 2010 - two women laid a complaint. 25 Aug - Chief Public Prosecutor Eva Finné said there was no evidence of a crime, and dropped the case. 30 Aug - Assange was interviewed by the Stockholm police. 1 Sep - Director of Public Prosecutions Marianne Ny reopened the case. Nothing further happened for 3½ weeks. 27 Sep - Assange notified the prosecutor’s office that he was leaving and asked if they wanted to interview him before he left. He was told they didn’t need to interview him, and he could leave. 18 Nov - An arrest warrant was issued, and they started proceedings to extradite him… in order to interview him… 😕 Assange was willing to return to Sweden if they would guarantee that he would not be extradited to the US. They were not prepared to give that guarantee. They were always welcome to interview him any time in the Ecuadorian embassy, but they were not prepared to interview him in the UK. A Swedish judge has now ruled that there is no need to extradite him, and he should be interviewed in the UK. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/436 "2019-06-04T17:29:25Z")
This seems far more diligent than how investigations are generally handled in the case of rape reports, at least in the United States – > **[Why Society Goes Easy on Rapists](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/sexual-assault-rape-sympathy-no-prison.html)** > > It’s not just that sexual assailants are often let off the hook. It’s that there is often not a hook to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/437 "2019-06-04T17:40:20Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Let me give some basic facts about the Swedish case. While you’re talking about basic facts, how is it that you overlooked for so long that the lack of a formal charge at this stage of investigation is the norm for the Swedish justice system? You’ve been portraying it as evidence of a conspiracy for several years now. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/438 "2019-06-04T20:13:39Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But it doesn’t look like Sweden is going to be able to extradite him any time soon: > [Julian Assange: Swedish judge rejects detention of Wikileaks founder](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48503730) But only because they don’t need to extradite him to interview him. Since he’s in British custody, they can get a European investigation order and conduct an interview while he’s held by the UK without moving him to Sweden. It doesn’t fundamentally change the process for Swedish charges, they’ll still interview him and, if they think charges are warranted, apply to extradite him when they indict him. It’s not a case where the judge said “these charges need to be dropped”, the judge just said “you don’t need to extradite him to interview him, so interview him with the process that doesn’t require extradition”. From the cited article: > [@](#): > > "the investigation can proceed with the help of a European investigation order, which does not require Julian Assange’s detention (in Sweden). The court therefore does not find it proportional to detain Julian Assange,” the judgment said. > > Responding to the ruling, the Swedish prosecutor Eva-Marie Persson said: “The investigation continues with interviews in Sweden. I will also issue a European investigation order in order to interview Julian Assange. No date has been set yet. We will constantly review the state of the investigation.” ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/439 "2019-06-05T09:35:15Z")
Two questions: 1. Have reliable details of the alleged “rape” action been published? I’ve seen a rumour and its basis would make a rape case pretty borderline, but I haven’t seen any substantial details from any respected news source. 2. What’s the opinion of Julian Assange in Australia? If he’s not extradited somewhere by the UK, I assume he’s going to get deported back to Australia where new extradition requests would then be filed. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/440 "2019-06-05T10:12:53Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Two questions: > > 1. Have reliable details of the alleged “rape” action been published? I’ve seen a rumour and its basis would make a rape case pretty borderline, but I haven’t seen any substantial details from any respected news source. Guardian: [10 days in Sweden: the full allegations against Julian Assange](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden) Reuters: [Special Report: STD fears sparked case against WikiLeaks boss](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-wikileaks-assange-charges/special-report-std-fears-sparked-case-against-wikileaks-boss-idUSTRE6B669H20101207) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210.md?page=23)