# Julian Assange (remember him?) update **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2016, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210 "2016-02-05T07:20:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/141 "2016-03-01T03:09:17Z")
> [@j666](#): > > This reads as if “extradite” and “interview” are being used as synonyms. In this case, where the person is a foreign citizen, they are. Did they not foresee this scenario when they wrote the Swedish Constitution? A foreigner committing a crime? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/142 "2016-03-01T03:22:17Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I wouldn’t read too much into whether a particular poster really means “interview” or “extradite.” We just had someone suggest that Sweden revise its criminal justice system so that Assange isn’t inconvenienced in any substantial way. Particulars of the legal process is way too in the weeds for discussions like this. That is a pretty poor read, friend. I’ve reiterated that I wouldn’t find this situation tolerable regardless of who is accused. You can’t just summon people from around the world. You have to actually charge them with something. Present evidence, that sort of thing. You know, due process. You can’t just say, “so and so accused you of something, you’re going to have to get on a plane and fly halfway across the world to answer a few questions”. Pick up the phone and ask what you want to ask, make the charge, or stop playing the game. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/143 "2016-03-01T03:45:24Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > You can’t just summon people from around the world. You have to actually charge them with something. Present evidence, that sort of thing. You know, due process. And Assange took his case to a British court to argue that he wasn’t subject to extradition to Sweden. News flash: he lost, and then absconded. It appears that the judge rule against every argument Assange’s counsel put up. If you make your case to a judge and lose, I think as a general rule, you’ve had your shot at due process. Now I suppose you’re going to insist that extradition treaties be rewritten so as not to impact Assange at all, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/144 "2016-03-01T04:00:54Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > And Swedish police are not free to leave Sweden or hop a flight to England? Or pick up a phone? How is a cop calling or visiting a person in the UK a sovereignty issue? The interview process is an integral part of Swedish criminal procedure, and therefore an aspect of Swedish sovereign power. Under Swedish law, they apparently cannot charge until that interview has occurred. It is a long-standing principle of international law and comity that one state does not exercise its sovereign power in the territory of another state, without the permission of the other state. In this case, there are two other states involved: the UK, because Assange is in the UK, and Ecuador, because Assange is in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. For Swedish authorities to perform the interview, they therefore need the permission of both the UK and Ecuador, because the formal interview process is an exercise of state sovereignty. This is a pretty standard rule. Closer to home, Canadian cops can’t come south to the US and conduct investigations without the permission of the US authorities, and US cops can’t come north to Canada without the permission of Canadian authorities. That’s why Canada and the US have a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, to make that type of cross-border cooperation possible. In the Assange case, the news reports (cited up-thread) indicate that the Swedish authorities have been working for a couple of years to try to arrange the interview, in a way that is consistent with Swedish criminal law, and is permitted by both the British and Ecuadorian governments. That arrangement was finalized in December and January. It’s now up to Assange to agree to the interview. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/145 "2016-03-01T10:02:03Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **DrCube** , for one. Where has he said this? In this thread, at least, he started off posting some woefully ignorant stuff about legal procedures, but I don’t see where he’s specifically said that Assange should be off the hook specifically _because_ he’s the Wikileaks guy. In fact, in one of his first posts he said the exact opposite: > [@DrCube](#): > > I don’t think he should get a free pass for his alleged crime. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/146 "2016-03-01T11:47:52Z")
> [@j666](#): > > This reads as if “extradite” and “interview” are being used as synonyms. > [@DrCube](#): > > In this case, where the person is a foreign citizen, they are. No, they are not. They are not the same word, they do not mean the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/147 "2016-03-02T00:05:38Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > …You know, due process. You can’t just say, “so and so accused you of something, you’re going to have to get on a plane and fly halfway across the world to answer a few questions”. Pick up the phone and ask what you want to ask, make the charge, or stop playing the game. (post shortened) You’re arguing with Swedish criminal law. And with international law. Assange is Australian. The crimes were committed in Sweden. Assange hightailed it to England. And then ducked into the Ecuadorian Embassy, which is Ecuador. It took a long time for international laws/treaties to be established between individual nations. It takes a long time to settle the international legal issues created by Assange the asshole. By my estimate, asshole Assange is looking at 5 more years in Ecuador unless Assange chooses to walk out of the Ecuadorian Embassy. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/148 "2016-11-14T14:33:57Z")
8 months later Assange was questioned today. > **[Julian Assange faces Swedish prosecutor in London over rape accusation](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/14/julian-assange-to-face-swedish-prosecutors-over-accusation)** > > WikiLeaks founder’s Swedish lawyer says he has been barred from attending interview, which is scheduled to take three days ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/149 "2016-11-14T15:41:45Z")
There are flights from Sweden to London after all! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/150 "2016-11-14T17:26:22Z")
As mentioned several times in this thread, it’s not simply a case of the Swedish prosecutor talking to Assange. The interview has to meet the requirements of Swedish criminal law, and also meet any conditions imposed by the Ecuadorian government, since the interview is occurring in the Ecuadorian embassy. This is apparent from the way the interview will be conducted, as set out in the Guardian article linked by **AK84** : > [@](#): > > According to the arrangements agreed by the two countries, the questioning will be carried out by an Ecuadorean prosecutor, putting questions that have already been submitted by the Swedish prosecution authority. > > Isgren will be able to ask for clarification of Assange’s answers, but cannot put fresh questions to him. The interview, which will be conducted with the aid of translators, will then be transcribed and sent to the Swedes. When there are criminal cases that involve the sovereignty of two or more countries, it is pretty much inevitable that delays will occur, and that nothing will happen unless the legal requirements of both countries are satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Smythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Jane\_Smythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Smythe)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/151 "2016-11-19T16:30:15Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > When we last visited our friend Julian Assange, he was in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London, with bobbies out front, waiting to arrest him on a Swedish extradition warrant if he stepped out the door and back into British jurisdiction. > > It sounds as if a UN panel is going to rule in a few hours that the four years he’s been in the Ecuador embassy is arbitrary detention: [Julian Assange is in arbitrary detention, UN panel finds](http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/feb/04/julian-assange-wikileaks-arrest-friday-un-investigation). > > I"m trying to get my head around this: there’s been nothing stopping him for four years from leaving the Embassy, except his own fear of being arrested and sent to Sweden. But the Swedish and British courts have upheld the original rape investigation in Sweden, and the extradition warrant in Britain, so where’s the arbitrariness? He’s just avoiding answering legal process that anyone else would have to respond to. > > I will be interested in reading the piece from the UN body. _ **It sounds as if it is purely advisory, and the UK and Swedish governments plan to reject the findings** _. I hope they do; it sounds like utter nonsense. He ought to be drawn and quartered, metaphorically of course. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/152 "2016-11-19T16:56:27Z")
What for ? Alleged rape, or embarrassing the American Government — an institution to which he owes no allegiance whatsoever ? For non-Americans we have no interest in protecting American policies or needs unless they coincide with our own. Any more than America is obliged to support foreign wishes. All these anti-Assange and anti-Snowden hymns of hate seem straight out of the Soviet playbook. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/153 "2016-11-19T17:05:41Z")
At this point, he’s no different than anyone else who has fled to another country to avoid facing seemingly legitimate charges. It would be a fight if the U.S. requested that Assange be extradited from Sweden, but it’s all a complete hypothetical. Assange just doesn’t want to face the rape charges and his paranoia gives him and his supporters the convenient pretext of the U.S. boogeyman to avoid that. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/154 "2016-11-19T17:40:59Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > At this point, he’s no different than anyone else who has fled to another country to avoid facing seemingly legitimate charges. It would be a fight if the U.S. requested that Assange be extradited from Sweden, but it’s all a complete hypothetical. Assange just doesn’t want to face the rape charges and his paranoia gives him and his supporters the convenient pretext of the U.S. boogeyman to avoid that. Quite. I’ve never heard his defenders deal with the question as to why the Swedish courts would be any more likely than the UK courts to accept a US request for extradition on a charge totally unrelated to the reasons for the Swedish arrest warrant - especially given that no-one in the US appears to have made any moves towards making such an application in all the time Assange was freely residing in the UK. Only when the Swedes issue an arrest warrant does the question of extradition to the US raise its head. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/155 "2016-11-19T19:10:03Z")
Nor does anyone respond to the point that if the UK extradites Assange to Sweden, and then the US applies to Sweden to extradite him, both Sweden and the UK have to consent to the extradition to the US. So it becomes more complicated to extradite him from Sweden to the US than it would have been to extradite him from the UK to the US. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/156 "2016-11-19T19:11:30Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > For non-Americans we have no interest in protecting American policies or needs unless they coincide with our own. Any more than America is obliged to support foreign wishes. Quite. Which includes the orderly and predictable application of international extradition treaties, which is in the interest of all countries which have signed extradition treaties. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/157 "2016-11-19T19:24:31Z")
So the American Government has a material interest in the extradition of Assange from England to Sweden, when none of these parties are connected to the USA ? American Extradition Treaties generally work one way. To, but not from, the imperial power. This has pissed off India frequently. And both Sweden and Britain are abject lackeys to the USA, far more than say France or Russia. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/158 "2016-11-19T19:43:04Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > And both Sweden and Britain are abject lackeys to the USA, far more than say France or Russia. How exactly is Sweden an abject lackey of the U.S.? Because they dare seek to question Assange in the first place? If the U.S. and the UK were really such police states back in 2010, Assange would simply have disappeared and been kidnapped or just executed by CIA/MI-6 goons. Or, more recently, the UK could have simply revoked the diplomatic credentials for everyone in the Ecuadorian embassy and ordered them to leave the country, leaving Assange nowhere else to go and then apprehended him once he tried to leave the embassy. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/159 "2016-11-20T07:10:51Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > So the American Government has a material interest in the extradition of Assange from England to Sweden, when none of these parties are connected to the USA ? Not a direct interest, but indirect, I would say. The US has extradition treaties with the UK and Sweden. Extradition from the UK is governed by the Extradition Act 2003, which applies to the Swedish request for extradition and for any requests for extradition which the US may make to the UK for anyone wanted for a criminal matter in the US. I think it is in the interests of the US that the British extradition process work in an orderly and transparent way, governed by law, so the that the US knows what the rules will be for any extradition request it makes, the standards of proof, and the willingness of the British government to stand by its treaty obligations. That US interest is a general one, that applies to any request for extradition it may make to the UK, not simply what is happening in the Assange matter. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210/160 "2017-05-19T14:37:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Sweden has decided to drop the rape investigation into Wikileaks founder Julian Assange. Top prosecutor Marianne Ny said his arrest warrant was being revoked as it was impossible to serve him notice. Mr Assange, 45, has lived in the Ecuadorean embassy in London since 2012. He fears extradition to Sweden would lead to extradition to the US where he is wanted over leaks. Ecuador has called on the UK to allow him safe passage out of the country. However, police in London said they would still be obliged to arrest him if he left. > > The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) said Mr Assange still faced the lesser charge of failing to surrender to a court, an offence punishable by up to a year in prison or a fine. > > But the UK has not commented on whether it has received an extradition request from the US, where Mr Assange could face trial over the leaking of hundreds of thousands of secret US military and diplomatic documents. > **[Julian Assange: Sweden drops rape investigation](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39973864)** > > The arrest warrant for the Wikileaks founder, holed up in Ecuador's embassy in London, is revoked. I think he would have been off surrendering to Sweden years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/julian-assange-remember-him-update/745210.md?page=9)