Julian Assange (remember him?) update

[Ibn_Warraq]

@Isamu

Technically, everyone is at risk of being sent to Guantanamo. For some people, it’s just a very very small risk.
And yes, I agree Assange is full of nonsense.

You’ve yet to explain why you think the two women made up the claims of him raping them.

Why is that? What is it about the women that causes you to think they’re lying? Please be as specific as you can.

Thanks.

[wolfpup]

@Smapti

One assumes if this was all some elaborate ruse to throw him into Guantanamo, there’s absolutely nothing stopping MI5 from just bashing down the gates of the embassy and tossing him into an unmarked van. What’s Ecuador going to do - declare war?

I don’t think the UK is interested in violating one of the most sacrosanct principles of global diplomacy and becoming a rogue nation and global pariah just to capture Assange. They don’t even want him, Sweden does.

[coremelt]

Julian has done important work. A free society should have nothing to fear from a leak publishing website, because the public should be able to judge the leaks and decide for themselves if its an issue or not.

The fact he apparently couldn’t keep it in his pants is unfortunate. But after seeing what happened to Chelsea Manning if I was Julian I’d probably have done the same as him. He has very little chance of getting a fair trial if he does fall into the hands of the US justice system. Maybe he’s just delaying the inevitable but he’s been able to continue his work from the Ecuador Embassy and that counts for something.

[AK84]

@Ibn_Warraq

You’ve yet to explain why you think the two women made up the claims of him raping them.

Why is that? What is it about the women that causes you to think they’re lying? Please be as specific as you can.

Thanks.

The case is nearly 5.5 years old, but the case was very very transparently an attempt by the United States government to somehow get Assange. No one back in late 2010 (or no one with half a brian) thought so otherwise. One of the accusers had worked for a CIA front.

[Ravenman]

Yep, this conspiracy to set up Assange for sexual assault was hatched on the same soundstage where the moon landing was filmed. We’re through the looking glass, people.

[Northern_Piper]

@AK84

The case is nearly 5.5 years old, but the case was very very transparently an attempt by the United States government to somehow get Assange. No one back in late 2010 (or no one with half a brian) thought so otherwise. One of the accusers had worked for a CIA front.

That entire argument depends on the idea that it’s easier for the US to nab Assange from Sweden than from the UK.

Why is that?

[Smapti]

Seems like it’d be a lot easier for the US to just indict him themselves rather than negotiate some sooper-sekrit plan with the British to extradite him to Sweden on a sex charge.

[AK84]

[QUOTE=Sampti]
Seems like it’d be a lot easier for the US to just indict him themselves rather than negotiate some sooper-sekrit plan with the British to extradite him to Sweden on a sex charge.
[/QUOTE]

Indict him on what charges? The Justice Department concluded that they had no real case, he is not American after all, he did not obtain those documents himself.

@Northern_Piper

That entire argument depends on the idea that it’s easier for the US to nab Assange from Sweden than from the UK.

Why is that?

Well Sweden has a pretty poor record as far as CIA rendition is concerned. Also remember the charges against him were dropped and then reopened after the whole Manning fiasco.

[coremelt]

I can believe that if the US doesn’t have enough evidence to indict him, then they do want him to go to jail for the swedish charges, since that achieves the goal of stopping him from running wiki leaks. It’s very possible they put pressure on Sweden through back channels to pursue the charges and give the maximum sentence if he is found guilty.

[AK84]

This is very obviously a case of pour encourager les autres anyway. Which it ironically failed in doing as Snowden demonstrated three years later.

[Gary_Kumquat]

@AK84

One of the accusers had worked for a CIA front.

The evidence I can find for that claim is sketchy at best:

Revealed: Assange 'rape' accuser linked to notorious CIA operative

While in Cuba, Ardin worked with the Las damas de blanco (the Ladies in White), a feminist anti-Castro group.

Professor Michael Seltzer pointed out that the group is led by Carlos Alberto Montaner who is reportedly connected to the CIA.

Shamir and Bennett also describe Ardin as a “leftist” who “published her anti-Castro diatribes (see here and here) in the Swedish-language publication Revista de Asignaturas Cubanas put out by Misceláneas de Cuba.

Is there something a little less flimsy that you’re aware of?

[Ravenman]

@AK84

Indict him on what charges? The Justice Department concluded that they had no real case, he is not American after all, he did not obtain those documents himself.

So the evil plan is that Sweden gets its hands on this hero, who then isn’t subject to extradition to the US because he isn’t facing any charges here?

So, where is the problem?

[Northern_Piper]

@AK84

Well Sweden has a pretty poor record as far as CIA rendition is concerned.

But so too does the UK. Actually, most of Europe does: Report on CIA rendition reveals massive scale of European assistance:

A new report by the Open Society Justice Initiative names 54 foreign governments that participated in the CIA program. Countries such as Ireland, Finland and Denmark allowed US agents to secretly transfer terror suspects at their airports. Sweden arranged for suspects to be flown directly to Egypt, where Hosni Mubarak’s intelligence-gathering partnership with the US government played out in an unknown number of soundproof cells. The UK government helped with every aspect of rendition, from arresting suspects to submitting questions for interrogation.

Given the extremely close military and intelligence links between the US and the UK, what is the basis for the argument that Sweden is more likely to send Assange to the US than the UK would be?

Also, the whole point of extraordinary rendition is that it is done in secret. Assange has one of the highest profiles imaginable. How easy would it be to perform the rendition from either the UK or Sweden?

Assange was moving about freely in the UK for some months, under the terms of his bail (until the Supreme Court ruled against him and he jumped bail by going to the Ecuador Embassy). If the US is so keen on grabbing him, why didn’t they do it then?

@AK84

Also remember the charges against him were dropped and then reopened after the whole Manning fiasco.

That by itself doesn’t strike me as very compelling. Prosecutors review charges regularly if new information comes to light. Since we don’t know exactly what the status of the Swedish prosecution is, because of Assange’s refusal to be interviewed, it is hard to judge the merits of the re-opening.

[Northern_Piper]

@Isamu

I didn’t say they should. In any case, authorities don’t get to dictate how they interview suspects - the law (as decided by the government of the people in each jurisdiction) is very clear about what is permissible and what is not.

Correct. And the courts of Sweden and the United Kingdom have held that the European extradition warrant was properly issued and that Assange should be extradited to Sweden to face the Swedish justice system.

[foolsguinea]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

It’s because Assange is a postmodern who is the on the 69th suprasexual level according to the Inturdgral theory something something where giving a middle finger to the US government outweighs rape and the rest of us are silly moderns and premoderns who actually raise a fuss over that crime, amirite?

It’s a pity that Assange-sex criminal and traitor to the West-hasn’t yet to be reduced to a smoking hole in the ground on the orders of the President. Hopefully at the least, eugenics legislation in Sweden will be briefly revived to ensure his sterilization and chemical castration.

Literally none of your post is true.

Assange is avoiding being extradited to the USA. This is well-established. Supposedly, Sweden doesn’t usually consider what Assange did to be legally actionable, which makes this prosecution suspicious.

The USA is not going to bomb the Ecuadorian embassy.

[foolsguinea]

@Qin_Shi_Huangdi

So then let the prosecutors and defense lawyers handle it and get to the bottom of the case.

Nope, you just called for his extra-judicial killing.

[foolsguinea]

@Ravenman

Yep, this conspiracy to set up Assange for sexual assault was hatched on the same soundstage where the moon landing was filmed. We’re through the looking glass, people.

“Location: Washington, DC”

I think you might be a little biased.

@Isamu

Technically, everyone is at risk of being sent to Guantanamo. For some people, it’s just a very very small risk.
And yes, I agree Assange is full of nonsense.

Everyone? Me? You? Hillary Clinton? Ravenman?

[Gary_Kumquat]

@foolsguinea

Supposedly, Sweden doesn’t usually consider what Assange did to be legally actionable, which makes this prosecution suspicious.

I do not believe that is correct. Do you have a cite?

[Smapti]

@foolsguinea

Assange is avoiding being extradited to the USA. This is well-established.

Cite?

[Diceman]

@coremelt

The fact he apparently couldn’t keep it in his pants is unfortunate. But after seeing what happened to Chelsea Manning if I was Julian I’d probably have done the same as him. He has very little chance of getting a fair trial if he does fall into the hands of the US justice system. Maybe he’s just delaying the inevitable but he’s been able to continue his work from the Ecuador Embassy and that counts for something.

Again, the US is just a boogeyman here. There has never been any indication that the US government wants to arrest Assad. But Assad’s absurd claims of persecution don’t hold up unless he has an enemy out there somewhere, so he nominated the US as that bad guy.