# July 11, 2024—a date which will live in (what's left of) democracy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [July 1, 2024, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551 "2024-07-01T03:43:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/41 "2024-07-02T17:04:16Z")
He wouldn’t be going to jail anyway (IMO, as explained in other threads, off-topic for this one), but maybe the judge can ignore the prosecutor’s request and impose an unusually harsh sentence. That would just leave things open to appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/42 "2024-07-02T17:05:19Z")
Here’s one of many stories on the delay. > **[Prosecutors in Trump's hush money case say they don't oppose delaying his...](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/prosecutors-trumps-hush-money-case-say-dont-oppose-delaying-sentencing-rcna159965)** > > The former president is seeking to have the verdict in the hush money case set aside in light of the Supreme Court's ruling Monday that he has some immunity for actions he took as president in his separate election interference case. I don’t get this at all. This conviction was for felonies committed _before Trump became president_. How can the SCOTUS decision possibly imply any immunity for them? ETA: Accidentally replied to one post instead of the general thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/43 "2024-07-02T17:18:01Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Toss Trump directly in jail under New York State’s legal authority, and dare the Feds to try to break him out. Before the latest anti-democracy decision I was in favor of simple house arrest, because of the logistics involved, but now the traitor needs to be even more tightly monitored. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/44 "2024-07-02T17:34:03Z")
They can’t house arrest him at Mara Lardo because zoning laws supposedly don’t allow a full time resident. And Trump Tower might be seized. Some token jail time would be nice, but what do you do with the fucker afterwards? No way he’s getting years. I say, take Trumpforce One to the far corner of some Airforce base, and let that be his home sweet home. Easy to make secure enough. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/45 "2024-07-02T17:34:47Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > This conviction was for felonies committed _before Trump became president_. Technically, I don’t think they were. Trump was convicted of falsifying business records; recording his payments to Michael Cohen as legal retainer fees, rather than reimbursing Cohen for the money he paid to Stormy Daniels. Those payments to Cohen, and the false recording thereof, took place after Trump became president. it was even part of the trial testimony that the checks were delivered to Trump in the Oval Office for his signature. Now, I can’t see any stretch of the imagination by which these could be considered official acts of his presidency. But I think there’s another catch. From what I’ve heard reported, the Supreme Court decision also placed limits on what testimony can be used against a president. The testimony about Trump signing checks, and some other details, came from Madeleine Westerhout, who was Trump’s secretary in the White House at the time. The Supreme Court decision may place her testimony, as an official employee, out of bounds. ---
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/46 "2024-07-02T17:37:12Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Toss Trump directly in jail under New York State’s legal authority, and dare the Feds to try to break him out. Oooh, I like this. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/47 "2024-07-02T17:38:49Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Toss Trump directly in jail under New York State’s legal authority, and dare the Feds to try to break him out. I like it. But I think the Feds could just say “No more Federal Funds for you” I suppose NY could say “No more Federal Taxes to you” We know who has the bigger stick here though. Why in the hell did the prosecutors agree to this delay? Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/48 "2024-07-02T17:52:42Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Why in the hell did the prosecutors agree to this delay? Any ideas? They’re willing to allow time for the court to review Trump’s claims that the SC ruling should wipe out the conviction. I suspect that the judge will make short work of that review, though. It’s utterly meritless just on the basis that a lot of the crime happened before he was president. And covering up illegal payments related to personal conduct prior to the election can’t be “official acts”, if that term is to have any meaning what so ever. Particularly in this case, where they made great efforts to show that Cohen was acting as Trump’s personal attorney, and he quite explicitly had no role in government. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/49 "2024-07-02T17:58:57Z")
Yeah, paying off your hookers whether you are President or not is not an official act or the office. I know they are trying to prevent an appeal from going through, but at some point, someone has to say, “Umm… NO” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/50 "2024-07-02T18:00:09Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I suspect that the judge will make short work of that review, though. It’s utterly meritless just on the basis that a lot of the crime happened before he was president. Merchan probably wants this all done with, and he’s got to be sick of Trump and his lawyers ignoring him, engaging in all kinds of shenanigans, and making a mockery of the case. He’ll give it whatever tiny due it deserves and then proceed. I don’t think his hands are as tied as they would be if he was a federal judge. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/51 "2024-07-02T18:03:03Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > This conviction was for felonies committed _before Trump became president_. > > Technically, I don’t think they were. Trump was convicted of falsifying business records; recording his payments to Michael Cohen as legal retainer fees, rather than reimbursing Cohen for the money he paid to Stormy Daniels. Those payments to Cohen, and the false recording thereof, took place after Trump became president. it was even part of the trial testimony that the checks were delivered to Trump in the Oval Office for his signature. > > Now, I can’t see any stretch of the imagination by which these could be considered official acts of his presidency. But I think there’s another catch. From what I’ve heard reported, the Supreme Court decision also placed limits on what testimony can be used against a president. The testimony about Trump signing checks, and some other details, came from Madeleine Westerhout, who was Trump’s secretary in the White House at the time. The Supreme Court decision may place her testimony, as an official employee, out of bounds. Thanks for the explanation. Ignorance fought. And FY, SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/52 "2024-07-02T18:36:21Z")
interesting, i believe the technicality to be on the other side. trump was inaug. in put into office in mid jan. the scheme was cemented and put into place before he took office. the first few checks were signed by weisselberg and his son(s). the testimony that was given by white house staff spoke to how the personal checks got to trump and his motivation behind making the personal payments. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/53 "2024-07-02T18:55:46Z")
And the contempt charges we handed down long after he was POTUS, sentencing for those should ne handed down immediatly. No need to wait on an appeal, by all rights they should have been given during the trial. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/54 "2024-07-02T18:56:09Z")
Also, the actions he took post-election were merely a continuation of the criminal scheme he began before the election. If a president was dealing drugs prior to the election, does this mean he can continue to deal drugs throughout his term, with no repercussions? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/55 "2024-07-02T18:57:37Z")
the sentencing is now sept. 18th. perhaps the drug dealing would move over to his physician… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/56 "2024-07-02T19:00:26Z")
Now I’m not sure what is better… For Trump to be incarcerated before nomination, forcing the Republicans to scramble for someone else (as if there was anyone else), or for him to be incarcerated once he’s the official nominee, just a couple of months before the voting starts. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/57 "2024-07-02T19:03:12Z")
After he’s the nominee. The party will never set him aside. He controls the party. Even if he’s in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/58 "2024-07-02T19:05:47Z")
So then we can hope he is incarcerated, even as flimsy as that hope seems right now. Maybe he **is** a giant behemoth roaming across the country. (Yes I read your book.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/59 "2024-07-02T19:06:34Z")
I don’t think Trump is going to be incarcerated, although he certainly should be. I think court shenanigans are going to delay it even farther or maybe even eliminate the sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551/60 "2024-07-02T19:21:57Z")
So, I guess the date in the title should be changed to September 18, maybe with a “yeah, sure” added. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/july-11-2024-a-date-which-will-live-in-whats-left-of-democracy/1003551.md?page=4)