# "Jumping The Shark" musically **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 12, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522 "2003-12-12T04:25:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![riserius1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@riserius1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/riserius1)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/1 "2003-12-12T04:25:08Z")
What would be a good term for the musical equivalant of jumping the shark? That is, the moment in a musical artists career where they have either peaked and are starting to slide downhill, or made a horrendous career move that they never recover from? Aslo, any examples of the above? I’ll open the bidding with _Self Portrait_ by Bob Dylan Chris W ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/2 "2003-12-12T04:52:50Z")
I’ll see your Dylan, and raise you Jefferson Airplane’s slide into Jefferson Starship\*. Handy of them to deliniate it so clearly with a name change (should “Fleetwood Mac” have changed to “Fleetwood Lindsay ‘n’ Stevie”?). \*OK, class – compare and contrast “Volunteers” with “We Built This City”. ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/3 "2003-12-12T04:53:07Z")
How to tell when your favorite musician sucks: 1. getting married 2. going off drugs 3. Printing lyrics for the first time 4. Cutting their hair 5. Growing facial hair 6. Rehiring someone they previously fired As for terms, I think, “started to suck” works ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/4 "2003-12-12T04:53:14Z")
Billy Squier jumped the shark when he made that godawful “Rock Me Tonight” video, in which he was squirming around on satin sheets. Pretty much killed his credibility with the hard rock crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raymond_luxury_yacht/32/4099_2.png) [@Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raymond_Luxury_Yacht)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/5 "2003-12-12T04:56:42Z")
_Some Girls_. ---
**Author:** ![Marlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Marlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marlow)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/6 "2003-12-12T05:30:12Z")
Combat Rock. ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/7 "2003-12-12T05:42:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chairman Pow \* > \*\*How to tell when your favorite musician sucks: > > 1. getting married > > 2. going off drugs > > 3. Printing lyrics for the first time > > 4. Cutting their hair > > 5. Growing facial hair > > 6. Rehiring someone they previously fired > > As for terms, I think, “started to suck” works \*\* These aren’t universal, but often a pretty good guide (OutKast ditched most drugs, and arguably got better). But Chris Martin of Coldplay just got married to Gwyneth, and I’m really worried their music will start sucking, since he won’t be lovelorn anymore. Maybe this is why groups that write about more than the trials of relationships and love — like U2 or Radiohead — seem to have more staying power. But we’ll see, in Coldplay’s case. Groups that refuse to print lyrics kinda piss me off, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/8 "2003-12-12T05:48:25Z")
Releasing the “Best of” album. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/9 "2003-12-12T08:18:52Z")
Yoko ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/10 "2003-12-12T09:26:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*Billy Squier jumped the shark when he made that godawful “Rock Me Tonight” video, in which he was squirming around on satin sheets. Pretty much killed his credibility with the hard rock crowd. \*\* And what’s refreshing is that Squier doesn’t deny it. Doesn’t even try. He knows he fucked up good. ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/11 "2003-12-12T10:29:01Z")
Genesis - A trick of the tail. Their last truely great album. It went slowly down-hill from there. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/12 "2003-12-12T10:49:52Z")
For me, it’s when singer/songwriters get into either a) Jazz, or b) Electronica. Examples: a) Joni Mitchell beyond the album _Blue_ (I realise this may be heresy - but I think she spoiled the kernel of her genius with all that noodling around. \*_Court and Spark_ is just awful.) b) Richie Havens in the 1980s. Jeez, Richie, I’m sure you got bored with whacking the hell out of the guitar, but jazz-chord synth remakes of your original music? Feck off. c) John Martyn in the 1980s. d) In fact pretty much anyone from the 1970s and 1960s who started experimenting in the 1980s. This is why singer/songwriters are better if they cop it before going bad (the Buckleys, Nick Drake, etc.) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/13 "2003-12-12T10:52:52Z")
I forgot this: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by riserius1 \* > \*\*What would be a good term for the musical equivalant of jumping the shark? \*\* “Synthing the jazz”? ---
**Author:** ![hammos1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hammos1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammos1)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/14 "2003-12-12T11:33:02Z")
Radiohead- the moment when they looked at each other and said “Forget the anthemic guitar-rock stuff. In fact, forget tunes. Let’s just fill the next album full of Aphex Twin-style synth-twiddling” i.e. somewhere between the release of _OK Computer_ and _Kid A_ ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/15 "2003-12-12T12:09:58Z")
One word: Comfortably Numb. Oops… ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/16 "2003-12-12T13:14:59Z")
hammos1, don’t make me impale you with a tuna. IMO, Kid A and Amnesiac were brilliant albums, as is HTTT. But I digress. U2. Zooropa. ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/17 "2003-12-12T13:31:48Z")
How about “Doing a duet with Iglesias” ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/18 "2003-12-12T14:08:59Z")
Beatles - _Magical Mystery Tour._ Jethro Tull - _Bursting Out._ They held out on the obligatory live album longer than most. The beginning of the end. Cheap Trick - Hiring George Martin for _All Shook Up._ Queen - “What do you mean, ‘Flash Gordon approaching’?” David Lee Roth - Leaving that band he was in. Kiss - Taking off the you know what. Deep Purple - Hiring two lead singers (David Coverdale, Glenn Hughes) in '74 to make up for the loss of Ian Gillian and Roger Glover. Bee Gees - _Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Heart’s Club Band,_ the movie. Credence Clearwater Revival - John Fogerty letting the other guys sing and write on _Mardi Gras._ Bob Seger - Trying to duplicate the brilliant _Live Bullet_ with the uninspired _Nine Tonight._ Almost any rock band in the 70’s - Doing a disco tune. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/19 "2003-12-12T15:11:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SNenc \* > \*\*These aren’t universal, but often a pretty good guide (OutKast ditched most drugs, and arguably got better). But Chris Martin of Coldplay just got married to Gwyneth, and I’m really worried their music will start sucking, since he won’t be lovelorn anymore. \*\* Start sucking ?!? ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/20 "2003-12-12T15:20:35Z")
Releasing an overindulgent double album is music’s equivalent of jumping the shark (see: Guns n’Roses, et al). Is that Billy Squier video the one where he’s got the hot pink tank top on? If so, I agree; bye-bye career. Perhaps the ultimate though, and what the phenomenon could be named…Chris Gaines. As in “Jewel really channeled Chris Gaines with her blatant sell-out on her new album” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522.md?page=2)