# "Jumping The Shark" musically **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 12, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522 "2003-12-12T04:25:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/41 "2003-12-13T06:34:59Z")
Dunno the term, but I’d apply it to R.E.M. in the mid '90s when they switched from being a retro-60’s radical group to a retro-60’s doped-up hippie group. ---
**Author:** ![Hodge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/42 "2003-12-13T07:18:58Z")
“Going to the Movies.” When rockers start writing soft pop soundtrack music, you know they’re finished. Bryan Adams, Elton John, & Phil Collins may never have been cutting edge but whoring for an Oscar lost them whatever street cred they may have had. Needless to say, I was conflicted when 2 of my favourite indie singers, Elliott Smith and Aimee Mann were nominated. Sadly, Smith rescued his reputation by dying young and drunk :(. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/43 "2003-12-13T07:25:20Z")
Back when Kenny Loggins was doing rock music, he did music for four movies and it never hurt his career, granted his songs were never soft pop, so that’s probably why. However, in the late 80’s or early 90’s, when he switched styles to new agey type music and childrens songs, that’s when his popularity started to slip. ---
**Author:** ![captainQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@captainQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/captainQwark)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/44 "2003-12-13T08:39:40Z")
_…they ain’t revolver._ IMO _Abbey Road_ is superior to _Revolver_. That’s not saying that \*Revolver \* is a bad album. And I’m a big fan of _Magical Mystery Tour_ . ---
**Author:** ![captainQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@captainQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/captainQwark)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/45 "2003-12-13T08:40:45Z")
sorry, I meant to put “…they aint revolver” in quotes. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/46 "2003-12-13T15:13:32Z")
The _Magical Mystery Tour_ film was a definite shark jumping moment for the Beatles’ carrer in film. But musically the soundtrack was still solid. The Beatles never really took a nose dive, though “Let It Be” was a close call. And as for Yoko, John Lennon’s good albums were made when he was _with_ Yoko - just not singing with her. He jumped the shark in _Sometime In New York City_, though that nekkid album he did with Yoko would count if it actually had music in it. Also, greatest hits albums/best of albums only count when the band actually shills the product - a lot of times they have relatively little control over those releases. Rolling Stones - the “Harlem Shuffle” video The Who - when Keith Moon was too out of it to drum and they had a kid from the audience take his place Led Zeppelin - “Hot Dog” Paul McCartney - The “Coming Up” Video (though he had several earlier near jumps Van Halen - The MTV Awards “reunion” with David Lee Roth Aerosmith jumped twice - with “(Remember) Walking in the Sand” and Liv Tyler peddling her ass for her dad’s band in a video. Metallica - _Reload_ George Harrison (God rest his soul) - in the “I’ve Got My Mind Set on You” video, when taxidermed wildlife joined on the chorus (did a squirrel do the sax solo?) Gun N’ Roses - Axl’s kilt ---
**Author:** ![Torgo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@Torgo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Torgo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/47 "2003-12-13T21:01:03Z")
**Met Yoko** is not right; the Beatles problems began to compound when Brian Epstein died. How about **Mourned Brian**? The Who **mourned Brian** with the dreadful “Who Are You.” It’s hard to imagine them bouncing back after that even if Moon lived. The Kinks? Perhaps the release of “Low Budget” is when they **mourned Brian**. Their recordings of the 80s, perhaps the most successful of their career, were among their worst. The Stones began their 20-year descent with “Undercover.” Who said it was “Some Girls”?? That’s a fine album. Feh. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/48 "2003-12-13T21:43:07Z")
I wanted to say “when they start doing things for children, books OR albums,” but really it’s much too late at that point. When the lead singer starts taking over and playing all the instruments, the band is screwed. See Smashing Pumpkins. Nearly happened to Radiohead as well on _Kid A_, but they managed to pull back from the brink and make some quality music instead of album after album of Thom Yorke indulging himself, as Corgan did. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/49 "2003-12-13T21:56:21Z")
“Meeting Yoko” is funny, if totally unfair and inaccurate. > [@](#): > > 1. going off drugs Am I the only one really bored with this myth that being on drugs helps you make good music, and you suck once you quit? > [@](#): > > 1. Printing lyrics for the first time I wish more bands would print their lyrics. I like to know what I’m hearing. > [@](#): > > 1. Cutting their hair True for Metallica, I guess, but it was only one symptom. > [@](#): > > 1. Growing facial hair Didn’t seem to hurt the Beatles. Appearing in movies and TV shows is usually a bad sign. But so far, we’ve overlooked the #1 all-time killer of musicians’ careers: Getting Religion. ---
**Author:** ![gyt\_fx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@gyt\_fx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gyt_fx)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/50 "2003-12-13T22:36:20Z")
Label switches (for most music I listen to [Punk, hard rock, etc.]) is usually indicators of ‘selling out’ and meaning the band wants to get on a better record, go on MTV, and sell and sell and make more money, regardless of their underground following. However, much to Green Day’s demise, getting old is quite a ‘jumping the shark.’ 39/smoothe, Kerplunk, Dookie, Insomniac, and then they matured and thought to do songs such as “time of your life.” However there are many good songs on that CD, it doesn’t compare to its predecessors. All downhill from there… ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/51 "2003-12-13T22:45:10Z")
Getting married was bad for Dar Williams. Let’s hope the next album is longer, sadder and more strong lyrically. Note to Madonna: Drop that Mirwais bastard. It’s all the knob-tweaking of William Orbit, done by some nerdy hermit in his basment who hasn’t spoken to anyone since 1987 and doesn’t want to. Can you say overproduction? Sure you can, as soon as you (adult content) take your husband’s penis out of your mouth, you sappy, tame, settled-down bird. ---
**Author:** ![yawndave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/43a26b/32.png) [@yawndave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yawndave)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/52 "2003-12-13T22:48:00Z")
Great Rock Acts simply cannot last for very long. They’re too unstable by nature. Whether it’s alcohol,drugs,death,creative differences, religion,disfunctional relationships,management troubles,(add your reason here)–people can only live a Rock Star’s life for so long. Some survive, some don’t. Any artist with a long career HAS to change, otherwise, we’d criticize them for repeating themselves. But the truth is, the acts that last the longest are the ones that somehow speak to their fans in a way that no one else can…it’s sort of an addiction, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/53 "2003-12-14T03:50:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yawndave \* > \*\*Great Rock Acts simply cannot last for very long. They’re too unstable by nature. Whether it’s alcohol,drugs,death,creative differences, religion,disfunctional relationships,management troubles,(add your reason here)–people can only live a Rock Star’s life for so long. Some survive, some don’t. > > Any artist with a long career HAS to change, otherwise, we’d criticize them for repeating themselves. But the truth is, the acts that last the longest are the ones that somehow speak to their fans in a way that no one else can…it’s sort of an addiction, I think. \*\* But there seem to be some artists who relativly stay the same, such as Aerosmith or The Rolling Stones. Also, some acts who have been around a while and change seem to piss off their old fans, look at Metalica for instance. But still, I do agree that to stick around you do have to change with the times. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/54 "2003-12-15T09:27:19Z")
**Anonymous Coward** What I meant was: Isn’t it great Pink Floyd never did anything _after_ Comfortably Numb. And The Wall was a single album. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/55 "2003-12-15T13:23:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gadfly \* > \*\*U2. Zooropa. \*\* I’d have to say U2. Rattle and Hum. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/56 "2003-12-15T13:29:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JDeMobray \* > **Unfortunately it seems like R.E.M. Met Yoko when Bill Berry had his near-death experience and left the group.** I would argue (unpopularly, I imagine) that REM met Yoko with the release of their album Document. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Sparky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac91a4/32.png) [@Saint\_Sparky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Sparky)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/57 "2003-12-15T19:40:58Z")
When pop artists suddenly think they can go RnB and Rap on us. Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Spice Girls… ---
**Author:** ![Infectious\_Lass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e56c9b/32.png) [@Infectious\_Lass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infectious_Lass)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/58 "2003-12-15T21:43:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \* > \*\*I would argue (unpopularly, I imagine) that REM met Yoko with the release of their album Document. \*\* I don’t think it was with either Bill’s leaving or Document-the moment that for me was when REM lost their magic (wow that’s an awkward sentence!) was when _Monster_ came out. Although imo _Automatic For The People_ was a rather overrated album (heresy!) for me, it was the last album that had that indefinable intangible magic that they had from the beginning. After _Monster_ they just got more mundane, less special, and I’m not really sure why. [half facetious]One theory I have is that maybe it’s because they stopped being influenced by the Byrds and decided they wanted to copy Pearl Jam[/half facietious] _Monster_ certainly sounds that way anyway And yeah, Bill leaving didn’t help, and as a long time fan, I was saddened when they started printing the lyrics. Probably over sentimental of me, but to me, that was one more thing that made them less special and more like all the other bands. I still buy the new albums out of an old affection for the band. But the fact is, I tend to play them once, or maybe twice. And probably not very often thereafter. And then I get out my copy of _Fables of the Reconstruction_ or _Murmur_ and play them six times. That says it all. As I was writing this, I was listening to the 80s Alternative channel on Spinner and ‘Cayahoga’ came on. Reminds me of the old REM. Who I miss. Badly. _sigh_. -Infectious “now I’ve gone and made myself all maudlin” Lass ! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/59 "2003-12-15T22:22:26Z")
By the way, I guess the “singer does everything” rule isn’t always bad. For the Beach Boys, that became _Pet Sounds_. In general, though, the lack of balance hurts, and it ruins the creative and collaborative process in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522/60 "2003-12-15T22:26:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*What? Jumping the Shark means the entire thing started going downhill. You’re saying that **The White ALbum** , **Abbey Road** , and **Let it Be** are examples of _bad_ albums?! > \*\* Bad albums, no; not by long shot. But the Beatles, I believe, encountered a verry gradual descent, one that was initiated by the half-baked MMT project. Granted, the album was infinitely better than the movie. But even the album had a very hodge-podge feel to it. Back then they’d release singles (“Paperback Writer,” “Rain,” etc.) that wouldn’t appear on the album proper. So when they gathered up the singles “Strawberry Fields,” “Penny Lane,” “All You Need is Love,” etc. with a few new great ones from the film and a couple throwaways, it marked the first time they were truly resting on their laurels. I’m aware that the Beatles’ post-'68 stuff is greatly loved by many, many people. But there was a certain joy and laughing camaraderie to their music that had died by the time of The White Album. This doesn’t seem to be a spirit they were ever able to rekindle. That’s why Sgt. Pepper is the apex for me. They were still making some incredible music after 1967, but as individual gods, not the _band_ of gods that had so casually conquered the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jumping-the-shark-musically/218522.md?page=4)