# Junk Mail retaliation: can I get in trouble for this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 31, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257 "2005-05-31T19:20:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/21 "2005-05-31T22:59:22Z")
In the 60s there was an article in _Mad,_ suggesting a number of tricks to play on junk mailers. Personally, I prefer to send their stuff back in the return envelope–with a fake return address… Let them figure out “347 Rhex Circle, Los Angeles, CA 90087.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/22 "2005-05-31T23:00:10Z")
If the return-mail envelopes are prepaid, why do many charities and college development offices have [opens recently arrived charity mailing for exact wording] “Adding a stamp to this envelope adds to your generous gift!” printed on the reply envelopes? (Usually in comic-sans or some other peudo-handwritten typeface.) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/23 "2005-05-31T23:01:55Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > 1. Those return postage mailers are prepaid. The company has already paid for them and won’t pay another penny no matter what you do - use them as intended, burn them for heat, or fill them with sheet steel and drop them in the mailbox. Not quite right. Mailers pay only for returned BRM. [http://www.usps.com/replymail/welcome.htm](http://www.usps.com/replymail/welcome.htm) [http://www.usps.com/directmail/glossary.htm](http://www.usps.com/directmail/glossary.htm) [Here’s how much they pay.](http://pe.usps.gov/text/qsg/q922.htm) While there is apparently a 2 ounce limite on Qualified Business Reply Mail and International Business Reply Mail; run of the mill Business Reply Mail does not have any weight limit. [http://pe.usps.gov/text/Pub25/Pub25ch6.htm](http://pe.usps.gov/text/Pub25/Pub25ch6.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/24 "2005-05-31T23:03:35Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > 1. Those return postage mailers are prepaid. The company has already paid for them and won’t pay another penny no matter what you do - use them as intended, burn them for heat, or fill them with sheet steel and drop them in the mailbox… This is obviously wrong, unless you can come up with a cite and make me eat humble pie. No business would adhere to that scheme. The mailing company only gets charged by the postal carrier after the prepaid envelope is actually used by the costumer. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/25 "2005-06-01T00:01:16Z")
> [@Dooku](#): > > I will remove the insides of junk mail, rip them into little pieces, then seal them in the “no postage necessary” envelope they provide and mail them back to whatever junk mail warehouse they came from, forcing them to incur the cost. > > (FYI - my junk mail has slowed down to a trickle since I started this little hobby). If true, it has nothing to do with your “hobby.” I’m always puzzled by people who do this, because it can’t possibly have any effect at all, especially when you make a point of not including any identifiable information. (I find this part especially silly: are you afraid if they find out who sent them junk, they’re going to send someone out to slash your tires?) No direct mail marketer gets a junk filled reply envelope and says, “Oh, no! They tore up our marketing piece! We’d better stop sending all junk mail immediately!” They expect a certain number of non-order replies, and consider it a cost of doing business. It has absolutely no effect on the way they do business. More importantly, it will have no effect on the amount of junk mail you personally get. If you really want to get less junk mail, use the Business Reply Envelope to send a note _with your name and address,_ asking them to remove you from their mailing lists. Or use the DMA, as previous posters have suggested. FYI, I use BRM in my business, and a returned BRE costs me $0.40 for domestic, and $1.20 for international pieces, plus a few hundred bucks in annual fees. (BTW, direct mailers will occasionally send a reply envelope with a live first class stamp, in which case it is truly prepaid. But since this is obviously expensive, it is much rarer than Business Reply Mail.) ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/26 "2005-06-01T02:15:05Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > 1. Those return postage mailers are prepaid. The company has already paid for them and won’t pay another penny no matter what you do - use them as intended, burn them for heat, or fill them with sheet steel and drop them in the mailbox. That isn’t how it works. The company only pays if they are used. Every day, the postal carrier delivers a stack of business reply envelopes, and collects first class postage plus a fee for each item. See [USPS - Business Reply Mail](http://www.usps.com/replymail/business.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/27 "2005-06-01T02:35:56Z")
[http://maddox.xmission.com/junk\_the\_junk.html](http://maddox.xmission.com/junk_the_junk.html) ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/28 "2005-06-01T02:49:39Z")
I send them back empty unless they come from Republican fund raisers. Then I stuff them full. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/29 "2005-06-01T03:36:12Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > [http://maddox.xmission.com/junk\_the\_junk.html](http://maddox.xmission.com/junk_the_junk.html) This guy is a complete idiot. > [@Junk the Junk](#): > > Not only will you be pissing off the credit card companies by wasting their time and money (since they have to spend time opening all your mail), but you’ll also be pissing off all the other companies that send you junk mail: Pizza Hut, McDonalds, Burger King, Papa John’s and endless AT&T and AOL… Returning BREs without a real order no more pisses off the companies than a fly pisses off an elephant by landing on its back. And as for pissing off companies by sending their coupons to another company, what is this guy smoking? How could they possibly know, and why would they care? > [@Junk the Junk](#): > > If you’ve ever been annoyed with their junk mail, send it back to them with some junk mail of your own. What can the credit card companies do? They only have two options: > > 1. Stop sending postage paid envelopes–unlikely since they know they’ll lose a lot of applications if people are expected to pay for their own postage. > > 2. Stop harassing you with an endless flow of credit card applications. Uh, no, their **only** option is to totally ignore your childish and pointless prank and continue with business as usual. And as we keep saying, they can’t possibly stop sending you stuff if you don’t tell them your name and address. I don’t know which is more disheartening: that people could be so deluded as to think this could possibly have any effect, or that they derive some emotional satisfaction from such antics. ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/30 "2005-06-01T05:36:59Z")
> [@](#): > > …Returning BREs without a real order no more pisses off the companies than a fly pisses off an elephant by landing on its back. … - - - Yea, I’d have to agree that this is pretty stupid, and wastes more of your own time than the bulk mailers’. Especially since it’s not uncommon for [whatever-company] to _hire out_ different other companies to handle different aspects of it all like outgoing, incoming, order processing, ect. If you are thinking that one guy sent this to you and will be really pissed off when it lands right back on is desk with a bunch of garbage stuffed in it, you really don’t understand how big the industry is. ~ ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/31 "2005-06-01T06:11:04Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I don’t know which is more disheartening: that people could be so deluded as to think this could possibly have any effect, or that they derive some emotional satisfaction from such antics. Don’t knocl getting a little emotional satisfaction now and then. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/32 "2005-06-01T10:05:23Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > You might be interested in this classic Straight Dope Column: > **Can I mail a brick back to a junk-mail firm using the business reply envelope?** > [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2\_356.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_356.html) So now you have to wrap the brick. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/33 "2005-06-01T11:31:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Returning BREs without a real order no more pisses off the companies than a fly pisses off an elephant by landing on its back. And as for pissing off companies by sending their coupons to another company, what is this guy smoking? How could they possibly know, and why would they care? Of course it pisses them off, why are you being disingenous? It pisses them off because they lose money. If everyone did this the business model would be that much less lucrative. And you misunderstood the guy. The company that gets pissed off is the one receiving the (some other company’s) coupons on their own envelopes. > [@](#): > > Uh, no, their **only** option is to totally ignore your childish and pointless prank and continue with business as usual. And as we keep saying, they can’t possibly stop sending you stuff if you don’t tell them your name and address. > > I don’t know which is more disheartening: that people could be so deluded as to think this could possibly have any effect, or that they derive some emotional satisfaction from such antics. The companies which use direct mailers of which you are so fond of have unethical business practices designed to fool and harass their costumers. For that reason I derive satisfaction from my hobby. Although I do include my name to at least give them a chance to stop bothering me because I am that much of a nice guy. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/34 "2005-06-01T12:16:19Z")
In senior design, we had academic mailboxes for receiving supply catalogs from companies we chose to work with. This led to a torrent of useless crap from people who thought we were $75k/yr engineers with a travel budget – mostly airlines – who would mail us incessantly. We cut a few pieces of sheet steel to envelope size for the companies that decided we would make good junk mail targets. Anyone got a BRE, and a slab of 1/16" steel went in. I’d love to say that we wrote “No More Junk Mail to Foo U. Please” but we were just engineers working out our frustrations on a subcontracted mail sorter who doubtless looked forward to the “surprise” envelopes. Maybe he made a doghouse or a decorative sculpture out of our steel plates. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/35 "2005-06-01T13:03:27Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > I send them back empty unless they come from Republican fund raisers. Then I stuff them full. …of cash, right? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/36 "2005-06-01T13:37:20Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Of course it pisses them off, why are you being disingenous? It pisses them off because they lose money. If everyone did this the business model would be that much less lucrative. If everyone did it, the model would be futile. I have heard that the expected response rate for direct mail is between .5% and 2%. That means the company is already blowing way more money sending out mail that won’t be returned. Even if the response rate were 5%, that’d mean that 95% of the outgoing postage is wasted. A few false returns are a drop on the bucket. This was part of **commasense** ’s point when he or she said > [@](#): > > direct mailers will occasionally send a reply envelope with a live first class stamp, in which case it is truly prepaid. But since this is obviously expensive, it is much rarer than Business Reply Mail. If mailers paid for each return envelope, too, they’d be spending way more on postage that does not gain them a return. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/37 "2005-06-01T14:23:05Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > If everyone did it, the model would be futile. I have heard that the expected response rate for direct mail is between .5% and 2%. That means the company is already blowing way more money sending out mail that won’t be returned. Even if the response rate were 5%, that’d mean that 95% of the outgoing postage is wasted. A few false returns are a drop on the bucket. Yes I get that. But if say 50% out of the 95% who are not interested anyway send back false returns intead of tossing the junk mail into the garbage it’s a significant dent in their profits. That’s why I said it’s disingenous to claim the mass mailers don’t care. Also I imagine that the mass mailers get hefty discounts on outgoing mail but probably not so on prepaid returns. > [@](#): > > This was part of **commasense** ’s point when he or she said > > If mailers paid for each return envelope, too, they’d be spending way more on postage that does not gain them a return. I’m not following… what you said is the whole point of false returns. Your quote from **commasense** just says that sometimes the return postage is already paid for wether you use it or not, unlike BRM. IMO that’s just throwing more sand into our eyes. No unsolicited mailing company would use truly prepaid postage. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/38 "2005-06-01T14:47:46Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Yes I get that. But if say 50% out of the 95% who are not interested anyway send back false returns intead of tossing the junk mail into the garbage it’s a significant dent in their profits. That’s why I said it’s disingenous to claim the mass mailers don’t care. What if it were closer to 1%? They don’t care because the false return rate is closer to 1% than to 50%. You are right. If 50 or even 20 percent of the people who got BRM did this, direct mailers would come up with another way, like spam, for instance. > [@](#): > > Also I imagine that the mass mailers get hefty discounts on outgoing mail but probably not so on prepaid returns. [Right.](http://bulkmail.info/presort.html) But they are still paying for every single item sent. > [@](#): > > I’m not following… what you said is the whole point of false returns. Your quote from **commasense** just says that sometimes the return postage is already paid for wether you use it or not, unlike BRM. > > IMO that’s just throwing more sand into our eyes. No unsolicited mailing company would use truly prepaid postage. Well some do. But most don’t because they have to pay for every return envelope in advance, thereby foregoing the advantage of BRM, which is that you only pay for returns. My point is that **commasense** said it is expensive. For any single piece of reply mail, it actually costs more ( **commasense** says it costs 40 cents, for instance) than a regular prepaid envelope. The cost comes from sending out a bunch of stamps that get wasted. If you want proof that the trick is not discouraging direct mailers, look in your mailbox. Abbie Hoffman suggested the send-back-a-brick trick in the early 70s. People have been doing stuff like this for years, and it really hasn’t made a dent in profits. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/39 "2005-06-01T14:51:06Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Returning BREs without a real order no more pisses off the companies than a fly pisses off an elephant by landing on its back. Agreed, however if we are talking about enough flies, their accumulated bites become annoying. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257/40 "2005-06-01T15:47:15Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > What if it were closer to 1%? They don’t care because the false return rate is closer to 1% than to 50%. You are right. If 50 or even 20 percent of the people who got BRM did this, direct mailers would come up with another way, like spam, for instance. OK but surely it is cause for concern, as it could potentially destroy the whole business model. I don’t think that many people are happy getting their mailboxes stuffed with junk mail. At least in my experience this method has always got these companies to stop sending me unsolicited mail. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-retaliation-can-i-get-in-trouble-for-this/306257.md?page=3)