# Junk Mail Success Rate **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2022, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383 "2022-10-17T20:17:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/61 "2022-10-22T16:58:13Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > You saw the ads, you understood the ads, etc., but your takeaway from them was, “that looks terrible, and I’m not going to see it.” In most cases, that is very likely _not_ a failure of the ads. But that’s sort of what I take the usual _‘advertising doesn’t really work on me’_ talk to be shorthand for: not so much a claim that most ads don’t get the point across — whether via direct mail, or TV commercials selected to air during a particular broadcast, or movie trailers that get shown right before another movie starts, or whatever — but that the guy who sees them finds himself saying “nope” or “yup” based _not_ on whether there’s a failure of the ad, but on such ads routinely informing without otherwise persuading; this or that gets understood just fine, and, well, plenty often the takeaway is _“oh, so that’s what’s being offered? Well, thanks for bringing this to my attention; but, uh, it seems terrible, and I don’t want it.”_ Now, sure, I can imagine the opposite: a guy who (a) routinely gets won over by advertising in cases where persuading is, like, independent of informing; and maybe he (b) would say _“advertising doesn’t really work on me,”_ and be hilariously wrong. But is there some level of _informed-but-not-persuaded_ where such a guy could be mundanely right? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/62 "2022-10-22T20:54:18Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But that’s sort of what I take the usual _‘advertising doesn’t really work on me’_ talk to be shorthand for: Speaking as someone who works in advertising…if that’s the case, sure. No one is in the market for _every_ product, and no one is the actual target for _every single_ ad that they see. But, I’ll note that, typically, when I see people state (including here on this board), “advertising has no effect on me,” it usually seems to be accompanied by the context of “I am a highly intelligent and discerning person, I make all of my life decisions based solely on logical, rational thought, and I do not deign to be swayed by cheap or sleazy marketing, the way the hoi polloi are.” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/63 "2022-10-23T00:55:34Z")
Getting back to the original “junk mail” theme, ISTM that a lot of those ads come from local, even very local businesses, like my neighborhood hardware store. There aren’t a lot ways for a local business to get word out to a customer base with a rtadius of maybe a mile or two. TV and radio are too widespread, metropolitan newspapers don’t zone their advertising that closely, and neighborhood websites are really only suitable to short blips. Using either the mail or sending someone around with door hangars is about the only method of advertising left, even if the only “targeting” is geographic. ---
**Author:** ![pianodave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e79b87/32.png) [@pianodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pianodave)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/64 "2022-10-23T01:30:40Z")
On a semi-related note, I always wonder how effective those cheap looking local car dealership commercials are. They are always kind of shoddily put together, with low production values. My guess is that people who shop there are more interested in the money they can save shopping local…instead of buying into a Lincoln MKZ driving Matthew McConaughey. I’m sure there have been plenty of posts on Crazy Eddie on the board, but I seem to remember his commercials not having very high production values either. And he made a lot of money, as unscrupulous as he was. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/65 "2022-10-23T01:38:12Z")
> [@pianodave](#): > > On a semi-related note, I always wonder how effective those cheap looking local car dealership commercials are. They are always kind of shoddily put together, with low production values. My guess is that people who shop there are more interested in the money they can save shopping local…instead of buying into a Lincoln MKZ driving Matthew McConaughey. The Lincoln ads with McConaghey are _brand_ ads, by the manufacturer. They serve to build awareness and interest in the brand and the model. In most U.S. states, auto manufacturers cannot sell directly to consumers; consumers looking to buy new cars have to buy them from a dealer (and, thus, it’s nearly always a local dealer). An individual who wants to buy a Lincoln MKZ generally _cannot_ order one directly from Lincoln, and pick it up from the factory. Crappy/cheesy local car dealer ads seem to be a genre unto themselves, but they do serve the purpose of being memorable, and making sure that consumers are aware of that dealership’s name – and, thus, when a consumer is interested in buying a car, that dealership will be top-of-mind. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/66 "2022-10-23T04:55:26Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Getting back to the original “junk mail” theme, ISTM that a lot of those ads come from local That’s the flyers. AFAIK (I assume USPS is the same as Canada Post) the post office will happily become a flyer distributor in the neighbourhoods requested. (Usually based on geography or demographics) Presumably the cost to distribute a flyer is far far less than the cost (even with bulk rates) of addressed mail. More specific is mail for a group that may have an stronger interest in the product - such as CAA (Canada’s AAA) mails us stuff about trips, insurance etc. once in a while - presumably selling their member list to a third party for advertising. Directed bulk mail - i.e. personally addressed - this website suggests could be as low as 1¢ each ($10 per 1,000) and at those prices, a pretty good deal. Even the highest rate, 13¢ per name, is better than standard first class rates. [How Much Does It Cost to Do A Bulk Mailing? | AccurateAZ](https://accurateaz.com/blog/how-much-does-direct-bulk-mail-cost/#:~:text=The%20prices%20are%20approximately%20between,per%20thousand%20for%20bulk%20mail). ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/67 "2022-10-25T18:10:09Z")
The other obvious way is internet advertising. Facebook and Google, etc. know exactly where their users live, and I believe allow users to target ads pretty precisely geographically. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/68 "2022-10-25T18:38:50Z")
I’m not convinced it actually works. How do they test and validate this? Do they ask customers “how did you decide to give us money?” and ‘mass mailing’ has proven to be answered enough times. Back when I was in industry, we did multiple things to get our name out, including flyers; but we never really knew what caused a person to purchase. We figured, just hitting them often enough through multiple channels got our name in front of them…but individual flyers in mailboxes…I have my doubts we ever got anyone remotely interested. Keep in mind that the advertisers and marketers only have to convince the company that flyers are profitable. THey don’t have to be in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/69 "2022-10-25T18:47:35Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > Keep in mind that the advertisers and marketers only have to convince the company that flyers are profitable. From the perspective of an advertiser, advertising services is the product they sell. If they can successfully convince corporate clients that advertising works, why wouldn’t they also be able to convince the ultimate customer that the product of the corporate clients is worth buying? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/70 "2022-10-25T19:21:20Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > We figured, just hitting them often enough through multiple channels got our name in front of them…but individual flyers in mailboxes…I have my doubts we ever got anyone remotely interested. Way back in the day a friend of mine sent out a bunch of post cards to advertise his business. The phone number on the card had its own extension so he knew exactly how many people called as a result. With emails or any kind of internet ad, they know exactly where the click originated. It’s not difficult to imagine ways to track such things. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/71 "2022-10-25T20:09:30Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I’m not convinced it actually works. How do they test and validate this? Do they ask customers “how did you decide to give us money?” and ‘mass mailing’ has proven to be answered enough times. Promo codes, dedicated phone numbers/email addresses/websites per campaign, and, yes, possibly also a survey among a sample of customers. There’s a multitude of ways to find out, within a reasonable confidence interval, how many customers responded to which advertising campaign. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/72 "2022-10-25T20:13:46Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Promo codes, dedicated phone numbers/email addresses/websites per campaign, and, yes, possibly also a survey among a sample of customers. There’s a multitude of ways to find out, within a reasonable confidence interval, how many customers responded to which advertising campaign. All of the above. The above is what’s called a “matchback” analysis. In the case of the direct mail campaigns we do for some clients (who sell big-ticket items), we mail to specific addresses (we don’t just blanket a ZIP code or a city). We then able to match the addresses for inquiries from customers, as well as finalized sales, to the actual addresses to which we sent DM pieces. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/73 "2022-10-25T20:50:22Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Way back in the day a friend of mine sent out a bunch of post cards to advertise his business. The phone number on the card had its own extension so he knew exactly how many people called as a result. With emails or any kind of internet ad, they know exactly where the click originated. It’s not difficult to imagine ways to track such things. There’s a variation on this with email - the email includes an embedded graphic “Http:// yada yada.jpg” or some such, and when the recipient opens the mail, the email program opens the graphic from a website and presto, the website log tells the sender the IP address of who opened it. (As opposed to graphic as an attachment) With a computer program to produce specialized JPG names, one per customer, you can even tell who actually opened their mail. Sometimes the graphic is only 1 white pixel, so you the recipient don’t notice. This is why today, many email programs don’t download the embedded graphics unless you ask them to. Just knowing an email was active was a win for spammers. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/74 "2022-10-25T21:16:14Z")
I just got the mail and for the first time in my life I will look at the junk mail newspaper-y packet instead of throwing it straight into the recycling. The ads were for: Custom closets Windows Omaha Steaks Three different competing supermarkets Hearing aids House gutters Jack in the Box Most of them had coupons with scan codes so they will clearly know how well the flyers worked. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/75 "2022-10-25T21:38:04Z")
Home improvement items (custom closets, windows, gutters) come with a pretty high profit margin, so the companies can afford to discount, and the advertising expenditure is a minor percentage of what a job brings in. Supermarkets are zoning by neighborhood. Don’t know about Omaha Steaks or hearing aids, but I suspect they have pretty high profit margins, as well. Fast food joints nearly always make money on the add ons to the promoted item. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/76 "2022-10-25T21:52:51Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Home improvement items (custom closets, windows, gutters) come with a pretty high profit margin, so the companies can afford to discount, and the advertising expenditure is a minor percentage of what a job brings in. Also, those kinds of products (one of my clients is in one of the categories you listed 😃 ) tend to have _very_ long “consumer journeys” (i.e., the amount of time, and the shopping process, between when a consumer first starts to think about maybe making a purchase, to finally doing so). Those ads serve to keep those brands top-of-mind, as well as driving immediate sales. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_Cello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Clark\_Cello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_Cello)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/77 "2022-11-10T22:52:32Z")
My experience is in credit cards (sorry 😛 ). Back when I started, 20 years ago, we would always have a response rate of over 1%, and often over 2%. Today, the offers are much richer ($300 if you open an account, $500, or even more), and the response rates lower. For a mass market list, it is always under 1%, usually in the 0.3% to 0.5% range. What that means is that you are generally paying around $1,000 per account, so the average payback is a couple of years down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383/78 "2022-11-11T12:49:40Z")
> [@pianodave](#): > > I can’t argue with the ironclad argument that if it wasn’t worthwhile for them, companies wouldn’t do it. I might try to argue with it. Advertisers, broadly speaking, try to talk the target out of some money. A very successful advertiser might be able to talk ANYBODY into forking over their cash. So, the advertiser’s pitch to the company equates to “give us your money to do advertising for you, because we can talk anybody out of their money”, and the company has to jump to the conclusion that the “anybody” is going to be the company’s desired new customers, and not the company itself. It’s kind of like Facebook claiming they offer their product for free. Users swarm there thinking they’re getting free product, never realizing that they themselves ARE the product. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/junk-mail-success-rate/973383.md?page=3)